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#11
09-12-2006, 08:06 PM
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Sean I think you are right ..... I obtained my "2250 Assembly Drawing" as a .tiff file from Larry Broadbent a good while back, and got my 2250 plans and Uprated 2650 plans from AAA. Any forum member interested to see what the Uprated 2650 would look like if you decided to build one from the drawings have a look  http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/atta...tachmentid=1704 I built it from the plans and that picture was taken at LDRS-XIII back in August 13, 1994. I still have parts in the box to build a 2250 from the plans with a true hand turned Sandman solid hard balsa nose cone and 29mm mounts cut to squeeze the motor mount tubes into the airframe. I cut the fins already. At least Scott called us "gurus", I'd hate to think I was a fanatic like some of the other guys around here.  .
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Steve Naquin TRA# 677 L2 NAR# 85518 L2 SAM# 0052 🚀 In Construction: Der Blue Maxx/Minie-Magg 5.5” & Vander-Burn MDRM Clone w/Stickershock23 Custom Decals 🚀 In Paint & Detail: USR Banshee 🚀 In Build Queue: Estes Doorknob w/Vander-Burn Rocketry Upgrade Kit [Sport Decor], Semroc Centurion-F, Semroc Egg Crate 🚀 In Repair: SLS Lil’ Hustler, SLS Aero-Dart 1969 Trim 🚀 Stay Tuned For Fall 2021 Launch Dates
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#12
09-12-2006, 08:38 PM
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From one who is following this thread at a slight distance  , I ran this model through RockSim just now, and got a few numbers to throw down...Using three E9-8s in the sustainer, and three E9-0s in the booster; and using balsa nose and fins as called out on these plans, I got 2731' with a 56 FPS deployment velocity. Three D12-7s in the sustainer and three D12-0s in the booster got to 1620' with a Dv of 26 FPS. Three E9-8s in the sustainer and three D12-0s in the booster got 2280' with a Dv of 33 FPS. Launch guide lengths are 60" for both of the D12 booster flights, but 130" for the E9 booster flight. Composite engines would require timers, batteries, and other components, so I'm not sure how much usable payload room would remain for "scientific flights"...
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Craig McGraw BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum BARs helping BARs SAM 0044 AMA 352635
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#13
09-12-2006, 09:32 PM
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And where exactly are you buying your E9-0 booster engines ???
  I bet I can guess !  Probably the same place I get mine ! When fast thermalite wick was available readily (before the ever over-reaching butt-our-snoots-in-where-they-don't belong harass-natural born US CITIZEN rocketeers BATFE got involved) it was possible to stage composites (even clusters) without any stinkin' complicated electronics.
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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!! Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't ! Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY. ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !
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#14
09-12-2006, 09:41 PM
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Craig And that's pretty good numbers for a rocket considering it's size and weight. I built mine with all LOC parts (my nose cone wasn't exactly to scale because of this) and LOC tubes in that dia are pretty light weight. No doubt the EnerJet 2250/2650 was where Ron got his inspiration for the Viper kits from - it's an awesome design. It was noted about the original 2650 that the rocket was proven stable flown with one of it's motors inert. I proved this on a flight with G55-10W motors and only two of the three ignited. The original EnerJet literature for the 2650 rocket claimed 53 cubic inches of payload room and a dry weight of 14 ounces for the 2650 (no booster). Main body and payload sections were recovered separately with 36" and 24" silk parachutes. As you mentioned, staging one would be difficult at best. When I first built and flew mine there were the reliable Rocketflite black powder F motors and I could kick myself for not buying a bunch of those thinking they would like all other things be available forever  Even more difficult to overcome the fact that you would have to run ignitor wires from the sustainer payload section all the way down to the booster with external conduits due to the minimum diameter design of the motor tubes. I fley my first flight on the two stage version as a single stage with (3) H35-10J motors. My second flight used (3) G55-10W and I can't remember how many flights I punished mine with after that but it held up for a good many years. I never flew that version as a two stage because of the reasons you mentioned and difficulty staging composites in that design. (Fanatic rant over .....) .
__________________
Steve Naquin TRA# 677 L2 NAR# 85518 L2 SAM# 0052 🚀 In Construction: Der Blue Maxx/Minie-Magg 5.5” & Vander-Burn MDRM Clone w/Stickershock23 Custom Decals 🚀 In Paint & Detail: USR Banshee 🚀 In Build Queue: Estes Doorknob w/Vander-Burn Rocketry Upgrade Kit [Sport Decor], Semroc Centurion-F, Semroc Egg Crate 🚀 In Repair: SLS Lil’ Hustler, SLS Aero-Dart 1969 Trim 🚀 Stay Tuned For Fall 2021 Launch Dates
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#15
09-12-2006, 09:52 PM
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Run the wires down that central opening between the three motor tubes, and have some openings in the booster tubes at their tops for the leads to gain access. Plug the hole at the top of the sustainer tubes with the wires in place...
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Craig McGraw BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum BARs helping BARs SAM 0044 AMA 352635
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#16
09-12-2006, 09:53 PM
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Thermalite ..... the good ole' days I used three big whips of that thermalite with teflon sheaths with a flashbulb from Robby's Rockets back in the day. He had some fantastic igniters.
__________________
Steve Naquin TRA# 677 L2 NAR# 85518 L2 SAM# 0052 🚀 In Construction: Der Blue Maxx/Minie-Magg 5.5” & Vander-Burn MDRM Clone w/Stickershock23 Custom Decals 🚀 In Paint & Detail: USR Banshee 🚀 In Build Queue: Estes Doorknob w/Vander-Burn Rocketry Upgrade Kit [Sport Decor], Semroc Centurion-F, Semroc Egg Crate 🚀 In Repair: SLS Lil’ Hustler, SLS Aero-Dart 1969 Trim 🚀 Stay Tuned For Fall 2021 Launch Dates
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#17
09-12-2006, 10:02 PM
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Uhh, well, ye know...  I was jes' usin' whut that thar Rock-ee-sim had innit...Quote:
I was wondering about how to reliably air-start three large BP motors, especially if one booster motor had a burn shorter than the other two, or somehow started its burn ahead of the other two. The upper motors would have to all start whenever the first booster motor burns out, otherwise you might get one motor to light while the others stay dark. Has anyone ever devised an airborne flash-pan system, where it was guaranteed to light off whenever the first motor burns out?
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Craig McGraw BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum BARs helping BARs SAM 0044 AMA 352635
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#18
09-12-2006, 11:48 PM
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Yeah, I'm thinking he sent them to me Winter 2001/02. Sean
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#19
09-12-2006, 11:59 PM
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I didn't have that kind of luck with my North Coast 24mm version. I used 3 Vulcan E26-8's. Only one motor lit at first. When the rocket left the rod it turned horizontal, at which point either 1 or both of the remaining motors lit, and it very quickly cruise missiled off into the sunset . Saw the ejection, but it was well into a heavily wooded area and we never found it. I ordered another one from North Coast that night. Sean
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#20
09-13-2006, 10:38 AM
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Steve,
Love that Business End pic :-) Good stuff ( and memories) there.... ~ AL
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