Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > Work Bench > Vendors
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-05-2012, 05:00 PM
Oliver's Avatar
Oliver Oliver is offline
European Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 60
Default Nuremberg Toy Fair 2012

Yesterday, I visited the International Toy Show at Nuremberg, Germany. Estes, Quest and Klima were represented.

First, I had a nice talk to Rick Oster from Estes. Estes was represented at the Hobbico booth, showing both rockets and new non-rocketry products such as RC and wooden gliders and helicopters. According to Rick, the new Pro-II-Series is on a good way.

Later, I had a coffee with Andrew Nicholson from Logic RC, the new Estes European distributor. Andrew came from Ripmax, the former European importeur, and is very experienced with model rockets. He will ship to dealers in the UK and mainland Europe so Estes will continue to be available to European customers.

At the International Hobbycraft booth, Quest models were on display focused on a new line of water rockets. A few prototypes were displayed.

At Robert Klimas booth, I was able to see new prototypes of his planned composite engines. They looked very good, unfortunatly it will take another few months until we will see them in the shelves in both Europe and the US under the Quest brand. There were delays with suppliers for his new, self-contructed engine manufacturing machine. He expects to have the machine ready in late spring or summer, then he could start making samples for CE certification (however, this timeline is not fixed, delays may occur).

Pricing in Europe will be less than the black powder Weco engines he currently distributes. He has 18, 24 and 29 mm casings and will be able to produce A - F engines. His new line will include 18 mm D engines as well as plugged longburners. Currently, this ones are in the pipeline:

18 mm: A6-X, A10-X, B6-X, C6-X, D7-X, longburner: C3-P, D3-P
24 mm: C12-X, D18-X, E18-X, longburner E7-P
29 mm: E22-X, F22-X

Robert thinks that pricing for the midpower ones will be far less than what we currently pay in Europe for available reloads. According to Robert, his engines can be ignited using standard electric igniters, they may be staged and clustered like BP-engines. They are even more durable than standard BP engines.

I attach some photos and if you have questions, pls. feel free to ask!

Oliver
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  spm02.jpg
Views: 145
Size:  44.7 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  spm04.jpg
Views: 142
Size:  96.5 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  spm12.jpg
Views: 151
Size:  49.4 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  spm18.jpg
Views: 162
Size:  51.8 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  spm28.jpg
Views: 130
Size:  27.6 KB  

__________________
European Model Rocketry: http://www.europerocketry.com
Modellraketen Info: http://www.modellraketen.com
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-05-2012, 05:05 PM
tbzep's Avatar
tbzep tbzep is offline
Dazed and Confused
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: TN
Posts: 6,649
Default

Those motors sound cool.
__________________
I love sanding.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-05-2012, 05:10 PM
Oliver's Avatar
Oliver Oliver is offline
European Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 60
Default

Yes, they looked very neat to me. Very strong casing and a precise nozzle. I attach a few more photos to show.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  spm27.jpg
Views: 69
Size:  26.3 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  spm23.jpg
Views: 95
Size:  51.6 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  spm24.jpg
Views: 78
Size:  43.1 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  spm21.jpg
Views: 78
Size:  34.8 KB  
__________________
European Model Rocketry: http://www.europerocketry.com
Modellraketen Info: http://www.modellraketen.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-05-2012, 05:16 PM
CPMcGraw's Avatar
CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
BARCLONE Rocketry
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 5,290
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver
"... According to Robert, his engines can be ignited using standard electric igniters, they may be staged and clustered like BP-engines..."


This is an interesting statement. These are supposed to be composite motors, right? Isn't this a bit like a "Holy Grail" for non-BP motors? Is there any additional information you can post, or point to, concerning these motors?
__________________
Craig McGraw

BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com
BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com
BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum

BARs helping BARs

SAM 0044
AMA 352635
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-05-2012, 05:33 PM
Oliver's Avatar
Oliver Oliver is offline
European Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 60
Default

Yes, they are composites, no black powder. However, as you can image, Robert does not release his formula. I can only say it is a white, very strong, but also flexible propellant that is pressed at the manufacturing process. His machine (I saw photos, but cannot publish them) produce them automatically, and works very accurate (measures the powder weight for each engine to ensure a high quality) according to Robert.

Since his formula has a higher degree of efficiency than the black powder Weco used, he will be able to produce D-size 18 mm engines for example. His F will have about 60 gs of propellant and fits into the 29 mm casing.

The only bad thing is I guess they wont be available before the end of this year or even later.
__________________
European Model Rocketry: http://www.europerocketry.com
Modellraketen Info: http://www.modellraketen.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-05-2012, 06:43 PM
chrism chrism is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 968
Default

Other than the Klima engines, is Quest putting out any new rockets?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-05-2012, 06:52 PM
Oliver's Avatar
Oliver Oliver is offline
European Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 60
Default

I cannot speak for Quest, but what I saw in Nuremberg was the new water rocket line and a few midpower models designed for the new Klima engines with motor mounts 24 to 29 mm. The names are Big Dog, High-Q, Mean Green, Minotaur and Lil Grunt.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  spm16.jpg
Views: 89
Size:  67.3 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  spm17.jpg
Views: 73
Size:  86.3 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  spm19.jpg
Views: 84
Size:  59.2 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  spm40.jpg
Views: 91
Size:  64.6 KB  
__________________
European Model Rocketry: http://www.europerocketry.com
Modellraketen Info: http://www.modellraketen.com
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-05-2012, 07:13 PM
Doug Sams's Avatar
Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
Old Far...er...Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Plano, TX resident since 1998.
Posts: 3,456
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver
According to Robert, his engines can be ignited using standard electric igniters, they may be staged and clustered like BP-engines...
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
This is an interesting statement. These are supposed to be composite motors, right? Isn't this a bit like a "Holy Grail" for non-BP motors?
Craig,

Keep in mind, some of the early composite motors came with staging ignitors (fuses). These were lit by the booster's exhaust. The length of the fuse was set to coincide with the booster's burn time, as I understand it. Anyway, the key is that composite staging (sans electronics) is not unprecedented. <warning, fuzzy memories ahead> Furthermore, I have a vague recollection reading that some of the early US made composites were set up for staging to BP.

My first take on these Klimas motors is that they're end burners ala BP and thus will lend themselves to BP style staging. For example, designations like D18-X and E18-X make me think they're using a propellant with a bit hotter mix than usual (ie, in the direction of AT's Warp 9, but not that hot) so that it can give moderate thrust in an end burning configuration which should allow staging to BP motors.

Anyway, I'm glad Oliver shared this with us. Thanks.

Doug

.
__________________
YORF member #11
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-05-2012, 07:28 PM
ManofSteele ManofSteele is offline
Level 5 Certified
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sandy, UT
Posts: 114
Default

Oliver;

Thanks for the report. Hopefully, this will spur more growth in Europe for model rocketry.

Are the F's planned at 80 n-sec? Are the 18mm D motors a full 20 n-sec? The motors look very interesting.

Will we see you when we travel to Slovakia in September for the 2012 WSMC?

Matt
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-05-2012, 07:46 PM
Oliver's Avatar
Oliver Oliver is offline
European Rocketeer
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Munich, Germany
Posts: 60
Default

@Doug, I still own one or two of this older AT composites with a fuse And, Robert plans to sell them for the German market (under his own label, not under the Quest brand) with fuses instead of electronic igniters.

@Matt, yes, Robert announced 60 - 80 Ns F engines. According to him, thanks to the propellant specifications he will be able to produce "full limit" engines. His machine weights each engine propellant before pressure so he has less variance. Also, limitations for engines in Germany will rising (more than the 20 g which is the current limit) so there is no longer a need to make such an engine as the former Weco D7 having 19 g and less power than a full D such as the D12.

Slovakia sounds nice. I just dont know if I will have the time. I may have very limited time between spring and autumn due to my job. But maybe Ill make the trip.
__________________
European Model Rocketry: http://www.europerocketry.com
Modellraketen Info: http://www.modellraketen.com
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:13 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe 1998-2014