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Old 01-06-2016, 01:22 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Default Mailing igniters?

Hello Doctor,

Is it legal to mail igniters (in particular, the pyrogen-less igniters called "starters")? Since these are just resistance filaments and contain no flammable substances, it would seem that they should be legal to mail without any special arrangements (although the regulations regarding such things are often not based on common sense). I would like to mail a pack of "no-dip tip" MicroMaxx Q2 igniters to a friend of mine in France (the European vendor from whom I purchased MicroMaxx motors for him had no packs of igniters).

Many thanks in advance for your help!
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Old 01-06-2016, 01:44 PM
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Shreadvector Shreadvector is offline
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There is a reason they use a new name for the new part.

Starters can be mailed.

Igniters cannot be mailed (without the usual restrictions that motors with 30 grams or less of propellant have).

Starters have no pyrotechnic composition (no "Pyrogen").

Igniters have a pyrotechnic pyrogen.
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Old 01-06-2016, 01:56 PM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreadvector
There is a reason they use a new name for the new part.

Starters can be mailed.

Igniters cannot be mailed (without the usual restrictions that motors with 30 grams or less of propellant have).

Starters have no pyrotechnic composition (no "Pyrogen").

Igniters have a pyrotechnic pyrogen.
Quest didn't "get that memo" then, because they call them "igniters" on the packages (see: http://www.questaerospace.com/cgi-b...action&key=5666 ), even though they have no pyrogen. But that's okay--I'll remove the starters from the package and put them in a Zip-Loc bag before I package them for mailing.
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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Old 01-06-2016, 04:54 PM
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Shreadvector Shreadvector is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Quest didn't "get that memo" then, because they call them "igniters" on the packages (see: http://www.questaerospace.com/cgi-b...action&key=5666 ), even though they have no pyrogen. But that's okay--I'll remove the starters from the package and put them in a Zip-Loc bag before I package them for mailing.



There is no mailing restriction regarding shipping printed words, only the pyrogen. Removing them from the retail package is silly and unnecessary.

Therefore you could put Estes Starters in a bag and write "COW" on it and put that into an envelope and it could be mailed without any concern for following live animal regulations. (OF course, if you write "DEAD COW" on it.....)

Quest named their MicroMaxx pyrogen-free version of the Q2 igniter long before the name change started.

Perhaps they will rename them if they ever make more of them or if they ever have to print additional packages?
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Old 01-07-2016, 02:59 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreadvector
There is no mailing restriction regarding shipping printed words, only the pyrogen. Removing them from the retail package is silly and unnecessary.

Therefore you could put Estes Starters in a bag and write "COW" on it and put that into an envelope and it could be mailed without any concern for following live animal regulations. (OF course, if you write "DEAD COW" on it.....)
I wish I could share your certainty about that, but my experience with the U.S. Postal Service persuades me otherwise. (When model rocket motors and igniters could still be mailed by individuals without the special permits that are now required to do it, I had to prove to my local Post Office--*using their own regulations book*--that it was legal, and even then they only accepted the parcel with great reluctance, saying "We don't like this." I was polite and patient with them [plus we knew each other already, on friendly terms], so it wasn't an emotional matter; they still thought the motors with igniters were dangerous to mail.) Also:

Most Post Office personnel aren't well-versed in the details about mailing motors, igniters, and starters (I'm not criticizing them; these are simply unusual and uncommon items to them, as are the regulations governing mailing them). If my parcel was opened (or became open due to in-transit damage), they would "have a cow" (no pun intended) when they saw the word "igniters" printed on the package. And that's the *U.S.* Postal Service; the French one might react even more strongly, given the recent terrorist activities there which have resulted in tighter restrictions. There's going to be so much else (non-rocketry related) in the "care package" that I'm sending that the un-packaged starters will be easier to discreetly pack within/among the other items (which include a crystal radio kit, among whose bagged components the starters won't look strange).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreadvector
Quest named their MicroMaxx pyrogen-free version of the Q2 igniter long before the name change started.

Perhaps they will rename them if they ever make more of them or if they ever have to print additional packages?
I'd rather see the current ridiculous regulations be struck down (but that's another thread for another forum), but I'll take any improvement to the current regulatory situation--however small and incremental--that Quest and other hobbysist rocket manufacturers can make use of legally.
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Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR
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