Thanks for the photo. I remember the ads on the back of the NAR mag that featured the NAVU-18 motors, but have never seen any and had no idea they were a metalized wrapper. Interesting.

Earl

__________________
Earl L. Cagle, Jr.
NAR# 29523
TRA# 962
SAM# 73
Owner/Producer
Point 39 Productions

Rocket-Brained Since 1970

Some of the earlier MPC kits (the ones that used the Redstone-like fiin unit IIRC) listed FSI motors with a caveat that a different motor mount was required. I don't recall if it was included in the kit or had to be purchased separately. I flew one with a 21mm engine mount. Good for demos... noisy and slow.

gary

Section from the Redstone Quasar instructions (see far right) which talks about an optional D mount. I think I have one of those mounts in the package in some of my (few) vintage MPC parts.

Earl

Attached Thumbnails

 

__________________
Earl L. Cagle, Jr.
NAR# 29523
TRA# 962
SAM# 73
Owner/Producer
Point 39 Productions

Rocket-Brained Since 1970

AVI advertised at one point that their Delta-Vee composite F motors were competition certified and used in competition.
Sounds like they were at least around for a short time and equivalent to the old Enerjet F67.

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, TURMOIL, FIASCOS, and HAVOC !

Fascinating new stuff!

* * *

I recall seeing pictures of the new motor pattern in AVI catalogs, but didn't realize it was a metallic wrap. I guess I had enough motors that I didn't need to buy new ones!

I think I had a few AVI motors with the middle pattern in Gary's photo. I seem to recall that packaging for later AVI motors was a plastic bag.

* * *

I don't recall having an MPC instruction sheet that mentioned the optional D-mount. As noted I intuited that FSI were being recommended, but couldn't figure out *how.* I think I would have remembered that text.

I wonder what time period that mount was offered in? FSI started in '67 or '68, and was purchased by the Reese family in the early 70s.

__________________
NAR #27085 - Oregon Rocketry - SAM

Ah, yes, the Redstone Quasar was the model I flew on 21mm engines. Thanks for posting that.

I dug through my archives for any MPC catalogs or data sheets (surprisingly little) and found a concertina-fold catalog that lists the "universal D mount". Based on the other products in it (Minijets, C9 motor, Titan and Vostok kits) I'd say it was about 1970.

gary

Ah...thank you! While I'm most interested in the reliability and cost of motors, how motors *look* isn't an insignificant factor--if two brands of motors are available in a hobby shop or other store, ceteris paribus ("with all other conditions remaining the same"), the less plain-looking ones will usually sell better. The foil wraps on the AVI motors are very smart-looking, and they may have helped keep the motors' outer surfaces cooler by reflecting the heat back inward after burnout (a helpful feature with minimum-diameter plastic fin units, such as the scale Tomahawk one used in several MPC and AVI kits). The orange-printed motors are attractive as well. Also:

Various colors of delay tracking smoke would be a nice feature and, like different paint colors on rockets, easier to see against different typical regional sky backgrounds. I once bought out a Fort Lauderdale, Florida hobby shop's entire stock of German-made MRC--Model Rectifier Corporation--18 mm motors (and a bunch of their "pre-Concept II" kits), and I discovered that they had yellow tracking smoke, which was much easier to see against a cloudless blue sky than the "natural bluish" delay tracking smoke. Bright "fluorescent-like" smoke colors (including those used in daylight fireworks devices) are also available.

__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

Are you still living in Oz? (Our family very nearly emigrated there in the early 1970s; I went there twice, and I've always wondered, "What if...?"). We need more scale data on Australian sounding rockets and on the test vehicles (Australian and British) that flew at Woomera. Not only do they have a fine museum, but even in the adjacent town of Woomera, one can find actual rockets on display on mid-intersection "islands" and mounted on walls in stores, bars, etc. Also:

I would love to travel there myself and photograph and "tape out" every rocket in sight (and maybe visit Townsville and Magnetic Island again; we had a house lot there), but having severe lymphedema (among other health problems), the pressure differential in the jetliners would leave me incapacitated with balloon-like swollen legs, and bleeding lymph all over the place (I very nearly died from a staph and pseudomonas infection that another lymphedema "flare"--as they're called--enabled). But if *you* could visit Woomera:

The locals, including at the Woomera museum, have let others do this (measure their rockets). Using a small, medical-type, plastic-cased, fiber dual-unit tape measure (like these: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...easure&_sacat=0 )
wouldn't risk scratching the paint finishes on any of the vehicles). A dual-unit, metric/ASA (American Standards Association; the U.S. doesn't and never has used Imperial weights and measures [the U.S. and the UK "harmonized" the inch as 1" = 25.4 mm during World War II, after a shipment of Allison-made Spitfire engines didn't fit the planes' engine mounts]) tape measure of this type (most are, at least in the U.S.), with the smallest gradations being 1 mm and 1/16", respectively, is especially useful for this reason:

Many of the Australian and British vehicles were either built to inch-based specifications, or their development and/or operational lifetimes spanned the transition to metric. (Even today, as will be the case for many years to come, the British Skylark sounding rocket's reusable payload modules--some of which may have flown at Woomera--still fly into space aboard Brazilian VSB-30 sounding rockets [see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VSB-30 - it was designed as a "drop-in" Skylark replacement], from Brazil's Alcântara Launch Center and Sweden's Esrange Space Center; Esrange flew many Skylarks, including the last one, and its 17.25"/438 mm diameter payload modules are dual-unit ones because the Skylark's lifetime started before--and spanned beyond--the metric transition.) I've noticed several familiar ratios that show up in inch-based dimensions of Australian sounding rockets (which enable one to infer "missing" dimensions not given in basic drawings), which one would never suspect if looking at only the given dimensions in millimeters or centimeters.

__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

I currently live in Massachusetts, so a quick trip to Woomera is not an option. Actually it is not a quick trip from anywhere. I had the opportunity to visit Woomera in the 70s (about 14 hours driving from Melbourne where I lived at the time) when it was still a closed town. Various clearances were required just to enter the town along with signing a release that basically said "if we shoot you, it's your fault".

The museum at the time was at the rangehead (more clearances and an escort), but we got to spend a day out on the range. We were not allowed to take photos if the line of sight included anything related to an operational weapon system, which was everything at the rangehead. They had recently had some bad press about the museum so they may have been overly touchy. We had more latitude at the old Redstone/Sparta pad and the ELDO launch complex at Lake Hart. The ELDO complex was being demolished and we found a set of spare parts for a Skylark (no motors) that somehow followed us home.

I understand that the town is open now and the museum is in the town. The rangehead is still restricted.

We took some model rockets with us, but we were not allowed to launch within the restricted zone. We drove out to a nearby salt lake bed with some locals and set up. A good place to launch Enerjet-30s in the middle of nowhere. Within a few minutes of the first launch a busload of tourists appeared and stopped to watch. Happens everywhere :-)

The Australian sounding rockets would have been built to Imperial measurements. They were initially based on surplus British rocket motors and some of the drawings I've seen tend to assume you know the dimensions of the motor(s).

We used to buy motors from AVI in bulk packs so in most cases I have not seen them in retail packaging. For a while B6 and C6 engines arrived in the NAVU wrappers. Smoke color was random, but not fluorescent-like.