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Old 07-08-2018, 03:54 PM
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Blushingmule Blushingmule is offline
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Default New Estes Citation Patriot...

Hi all,

Well, mm, launch lugs, and fins are all installed.

Questions:

Does any one know why the motor mount is assembled with 1/2" of the motor extending
as opposed to the usual 1/4"? The instructions show 2.25" as opposed to the usual 2.5" for the hook slot.

Bob
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Old 07-08-2018, 09:02 PM
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I bought a couple dozen with a vision to make a Mach 2 version and use the Estes decals included with the MR version. Anybody?

Semroc Saturn 1B's in stock now.
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Old 07-09-2018, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blushingmule
Does any one know why the motor mount is assembled with 1/2" of the motor extending
as opposed to the usual 1/4"? The instructions show 2.25" as opposed to the usual 2.5" for the hook slot.

Bob


A number of models have been revised relatively recently to do this. I just got the re-released (and only at AC Supply) bulk Nova Payloader and they did the same thing there. On BT-50-based models like the Nova Payloader (or the Alpha, which has also been revised like this in the not-too-distant past) the speculation is that this allows the finger-tab-style motor hook to be pulled back from the motor tube sufficiently to get a motor in and out without having to deform the BT-50 to do it.

On the Citation Patriot this is not an issue.....which leads me to think in terms of reuse of instruction sheet artwork from one of the smaller models as the likely culprit. That's purely speculation on my part....but in researching the history of some other models (notably the Alpha) there are clearly cases where art got reused that, well, shouldn't have.

When I built Citation Patriot I just did it with the 1/4 inch overhang as I'd expected to do and ignored the instructions on that point.
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Old 07-09-2018, 06:33 AM
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Bernard,

Many thanks. Next one I'll just build normally.

I did trim the hook tab so it'll stand on its fins. Will use the
old style hooks next time also.

Bob
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:11 AM
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It seems Estes is no longer using spring steel engine hooks in their kits.
This might be why the engine is extended farther out the back end of the model.
The newer engine hooks will not spring back after an engine is slid in place, they bend!

I order spring steel hooks without the finger tab from BMS
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hcmbanjo
It seems Estes is no longer using spring steel engine hooks in their kits.
This might be why the engine is extended farther out the back end of the model.
The newer engine hooks will not spring back after an engine is slid in place, they bend!

I order spring steel hooks without the finger tab from BMS
FWIW, besides piano wire, I use the metal strips from discarded windshield wipers. One blade has 2 strips, about enough metal for 10 or so rockets.

The metal is a tad thicker and wider than the old, stock hooks, but it's springy enough to make good retainers.

Not that I want to advocate dumpster diving, but there's usually a few spent wipers in the trash can at the front door of auto parts stores, especially on rainy days

I think I picked up a lifetime supply at O-Reilly's a few years ago

Doug

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Old 07-09-2018, 09:31 PM
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Yes, I'd noticed the Estes hooks weren't all that springy of late.

I've harvested the metal stiffeners from windshield wipers when I've changed them on my cars...but so far have only made a couple of hooks from that material. Sometimes it's brittle enough to crack when you make the 90-degree bends. But still it's a plausible source of material for this purpose.

I just got some BMS hooks (and have some Semroc hooks) as well. They do get substituted in for some builds.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:02 PM
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I have been substituting the lousy modern Estes hooks with Semroc ones since they became available.
I'm upgrading my current Citation Patriot build with a 24mm "E" length mount with a Semroc hook. One can always adapt down to 18mm for small fields. That rocket flies really well on anything from a B4-4 in a small field all the way to an Aerotech 24mm F32 in a big field.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:13 PM
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I will definitely have to do that when I build the second kit. I did the first one stock (save for the motor overhang and putting in a Semroc baffle) just because I wanted to see what it was like that way. It does turn in nice flights.
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Sams
FWIW, besides piano wire, I use the metal strips from discarded windshield wipers. One blade has 2 strips, about enough metal for 10 or so rockets.
The metal is a tad thicker and wider than the old, stock hooks, but it's springy enough to make good retainers.
Not that I want to advocate dumpster diving, but there's usually a few spent wipers in the trash can at the front door of auto parts stores, especially on rainy days
I think I picked up a lifetime supply at O-Reilly's a few years ago
Doug.


Hi Doug,
I've been doing that for a few years. For my Odd'l kits I use the spring steel BMS hooks. For my own builds I sometimes use the windshield wiper steel.

I've made a lot of stops at auto supply stores. Saturday afternoon seems to be the best time to pick up the old wiper blades, they are sticking up out of the trash cans - easy pickins!
I always take a few paper towels with me, the old wiper blades are dirty.
Strip them and pull out the steel strips right at the trash can.
The vendor selling hot dogs always greets me as the Rocket Man. I did explain what I was doing a few years ago.
When making the 90 degree bends - if you feel it cracking, throw that strip away.
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