I agree - Apogee has always treated me like a "most valued customer" no matter how much or little I buy. They are top notch!

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Greg Poehlein

Member of Launch Crue - http://launchcrue.org/

Hint #1: Do not use magician's flash paper for recovery wadding!

Hint #2: Clean your shoes after flyin' in that cow pasture - that ain't no dirt clod on the sole!

I think your tendency to shoot off at the mouth got the better of you. Pointing out that RAH or some other vendor took money and didn't deliver product we can at least back up with facts. But in your zeal to have your voice heard your strayed into libel territory. I believe that Tim VERY MUCH has the attitude that every single one of this customers are worth his time and effort. I believe that if one person has been affected by your comments that negatively impacts Apogee's business, then you have directly harmed that company. You should post a retraction of your statement.

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-Wolfram v. Kiparski
NAR 28643 - TRA 15520
MTMA Section #606 President

I believe and have been treated so, that Apogee cares a ton about every single customer. His service is fabulous. They might not send stuff out quite as fast as Semroc did, but Semroc was very close to me, Raleigh to Columbia, SC. I wrote Tim a note to which he himself responded that very night.
He and his operation are first class as far as I'm concerned.

RAH was very slow in completing orders for me. The last attempt I made was for a set of the Sunward fighters he listed as in stock. It took a while for RAH to let me know they indeed were not in stock, but he refunded my entire order.
So no issues but disappointment (which Angelo has addressed with his rerelease of 4 of the 8 fighters now, of which I bought all 4).

Allen

I am curious of just how many posters with nothing but negativity towards RAH has actually lost money. If you haven't, then you shouldn't be posting negativity. It's call Gossip.
I can't say I'm for, or against RAH because I had never purchased from them. Not that I diidn't want to, I'm just poor. And they had some real good prices on kits I wanted.
Tim at Apogee indeed answers his emails personally. He even looks at designs sent to him to help solve problems in RocSim. He is dedicated to his customers, from my experience.
Semroc was always a 2 day turn around for me if placed an A.M. order. And I miss the white boxes with SEMROC on the sides. I think Sheryl would agree with me, that they were not a high volume business, so they could handle orders with almost immediate attention. They did very well for a family business.
I believe that everyone has a favorite set of vendors, for what ever reason. I try and spread what little I have around between them. Some vendors are just above me in what I can do and afford.

I'm also a satisfied Apogee customer. It takes 3 to 4 days to receive my order here in Florida, depending on the shipping method I choose, but all my orders are always packed and shipped promptly. Another big plus for Apogee is all the helpful information articles and videos that are available to read/view on the website free of charge.

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Friends Don't let Friends Do TRF

FWIW, I won a box of tubes from RAH as a door prize at one of the national events years ago, maybe a NARAM near Waco, or a NARCON in Austin (circa 2003). The tubes and other bits were all high quality kraft paper. No complaints at all.

That is, my only experience with RAH was very good

I still have most of the parts on top of the bookcase above my work bench (but I have used some of them over the years). One of these days, I'll start building a new rocket and use some more of them.

Right now, my grand buddies are 2 and 3, not quite old enough for building rockets, but in another few years, they'll be in rocketeer heaven when they start using up Poppy's stash of parts and motors

Doug

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YORF member #11

Dave (RAH) used to show up regularly at our launches until about a year ago. One of our members called him right around Christmas to check up on him. I don't expect he'll be getting back to the hobby he truly enjoys for awhile. That's all I'll say. If he comes back that will be great.

As for Commonwealth, someone was asking earlier in the thread. Steve sold rocket hobby side of Commonwealth in 2011 or 12. He still sells fireworks at the Southgate, MI location. Fireworks was always part of the business. The rocket side became CDI Rocketry. Last I heard the owner had fallen ill and closed it up.

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Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

Obviously you haven't read his overly candid comments that he has made SEVERAL times (particularly in his "Peak of Flight" newsletters) where HE HIMSELF has said as much... He has said himself that if you are NOT one of his "special customers" who buy from him regularly, that he's not particularly interested in you. I'm not going to quote it because it's been a few years since I read it and I'm not going on a fishing expedition to cut-n-paste it for someone else, but I HAVE read those very words (or to that effect) from things TIM HIMSELF has written.

ALSO, their customer service is NOT "absolutely outstanding". I had problems with RockSim 8 when I bought it, and after a few back-n-forth emails with Tim I got comments like "that's why you should have bought a Mac" and other TOTAL BS (if that was his opinion, then WHY even sell a "Windows version" of the software, if it's too unstable to run on a brand new (at the time) Windows Vista computer?? I even asked before I bought it if it would run on Windows Vista and he said it would... then when I have problems instead of help I get snarky comments like "you should have bought a Mac?" I was VERY tempted to tell him he shouldn't be selling the program to run on Windows if it won't run on windows. After some more emails we FINALLY got it straightened out and working (for awhile) but I had issues with it several times after that, which required some trading emails to get it to work.

That's why I didn't bother spending the money with him to upgrade to RS 9... I figured that since 8 had plenty of glitches we had to work through and work around, why upgrade to a new set of bugs and pay $40 to do it.

I've bought from Tim in the past and will continue to, but his attitude is something else. If you're not a "special customer" basically he's said he doesn't particularly care-- that's a CRAPPY attitude to have as a businessman, IMHO. CERTAINLY not the kind of attitude displayed by Semroc. Tim breaks his own arm patting himself on the back. He toots his own horn ENTIRELY too much, and like I said, his attitude certainly doesn't align with "absolutely outstanding customer service".

Later! OL J R

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The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!

Have ANY of you guys ever READ what TIM HIMSELF has said about his attitude toward customers and customer service?? Because I HAVE and I guarantee that he's said IN HIS OWN WORDS AND WRITING exactly what I said... and I know he said it on at least two different occasions, in the "Peak of Flight" newsletter... Once was in an article (IIRC) about how Apogee does business, in talking about a business seminar he attended on building customers. Another time he said something similar was in an article about clubs asking for "freebies" for giveaway prizes or whatever, something of that sort. Another time there was an article or something chastising people who read "Peak of Flight" or watch his YouTube "rocketry workshop" videos without "buying stuff from him"... how they're "freeloaders" and such.

I'm not going to spend three hours digging through old POF newsletters looking for it. It's there, I read it, and I read it MORE THAN ONCE. That's what shocked me about it. I've even commented about it on the forums before in posts years past... it's been something he's said several times over the years. I was rather surprised that he would be that "open" about it; I mean there's "doing it that way" while saying "our goal is the best customer service"; it's quite another to just come out and say you're not interested in customers who aren't regular customers, repeat customers, and frequent customers... and that the occasional customer isn't much of a concern for his company. If anybody's interested, go take a look in the POF newsletters...

As for "the best customer service in the business", I can SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE that that is NOT true. I had issues with RS 8 when I bought it from Apogee and got snarky comments like "you should have bought a Mac" instead of useful information... I will give him credit that we FINALLY got it worked out and working, but it soured me on paying the $40 to Tim to upgrade to the RS9 program when it came out... After all, if RS 8 have proven unstable on my computer, why did I want to pay MORE money for something that would probably be no better??

I was very much tempted to tell him "then WHY are you selling a program that won't run properly on a Windows computer (at the time I had a brand spanking new Windows Vista machine)-- why not simply say in your advertising that "may or may not run on Windows" and "only for Mac computers"...

Anyway, I don't give a rip if you bootlickers for Apogee believe it or not... he DID say it and he DID give me FAR less than stellar customer service on my $100 Rocksim 8 purchase, which cost them my business in upgrading to RS 9... and I haven't bought much from them since, actually. Some, but not a LOT... Like I said, I'll buy from Tim and Apogee, but they're basically my "last stop" because I can almost guarantee I can get 'whatever' cheaper elsewhere than from Apogee... I'll give Tim credit, in that orders go out quickly, he has a wide selection, and he tries to satisfy the new customer and make them a repeat customer... but he HAS said that if you're NOT a repeat/frequent customer, he's not as interested in you.

I NEVER had ANY problems with purchases from Semroc... not any that weren't solved. Seems one time I might have been missing something or they were out of something, but it was SOLVED to my COMPLETE SATISFACTION and with an apology virtually as soon as it became known. *THAT* is TRULY outstanding customer service, the kind Tim likes to talk about and pat himself on the back for without really doing it.

That's been MY experience.

Later! OL J R

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The X-87B Cruise Basselope-- THE Ultimate Weapon in the arsenal of Homeland Security and only $52 million per round!

Luke,
RS-9 fixes a lot of the problems you had faced.
I started with it on my Vista lap top from day 1 and never had a problem with the program itself.
Transitioned 2 years ago to Win 8.1, and just before the free 10 offer expired went to that. I have never had a problem with RS-9.
If you do some looking around, or go on a fishing expedition as you call it (and it is a huge site to find your way around in), you'll find a host of what to do if's with RS-8. But not for RS-9.
I also remember reading something similar in his Peak of Flight News Letters.
It more pertained he didn't care about customers looking for the best price.
All based upon the available free info and videos on his site. Including for RS-9.
I don't know Tim personally, but exchanged enough emails I get a feel for his personality.
I would guess in your case, he was highly frustrated with the issues in Windows, and not with you personally.
I know when I'm having a bad day, people around me notice me being a little grumpy at them for no reason. It might have just been one of them days. I do know he pushes the MAC thing though.