The crap you people in California put up with for supposed Enviro-Whacko reasons amazes me. We have exactly ZERO environmental testing of autos here in Michigan after they are sold new. That's the way it should be EVERYWHERE. If individuals want to do more, they should be free to choose to do so. Those that don't give a rat's behind should also be FREE to make that CHOICE as well. As one can be free to be a tree-hugger and supposedly save their little piece of the earth, others should be free to not give a dawg-crapp about their piece !
The ONLY two words I have for enviro-whackos ( ALL environmentalists) and environmental agencies start with F and Y ! Throw in an occasional KMA to boot !

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !

California is around 40% Republican. There are several congressional districts in CA that vote reliably Republican. But just as an 11% production difference in natural gas reduced prices to 1/3 (67% drop), the slight leaning D in CA makes it overall have largely D policies. This means very high taxes, especially taxes on the poorest, such as gasoline, cigarette, energy, and sales taxes. This means heavy support of public sector unions despite the heavy burden on property taxpayers and student graduation rates. These are true believers with suspended disbelief.

D tend to raise personalities to cult/idolatry status. The latest example is Obama, who is followed without critically analyzing his policies, who spends all waking hours developing a "ground game" for the next election cycle. It is all about the election itself, not about policies. It is simply rooting for a team and gathering fans. That's why is is more important to speak in comforting platitudes than in subject specific terms. To sing nicely and generate strong emotions in his followers, detached from any fact or issue at all. It is a successful psyops campaign.

Jerry

Yep. With policies full of more crap than a cattle ranch during brandin' season.
I'm more of a libertarian than anything else. I want to be able to do whatever the hell I want and will let my neighbors do the same. I favor corporate regulation whenever the average joe/josie "middle class american" is being raped by corporate gouge-level profiteering interests at the expense of the average citizen, which unfortunately most all politicians allow to happen all to often. The gasoline/petroleum oligopoly as well as the finance 'industry' are the most glaring examples of this.

When 1% of the country's population is allowed to control 50+% of the money supply, they ARE getting an unfair advantage that needs to change FAR SOONER than later.

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !

CHEVY VOLT PAYS FOR ITSELF -- IN JUST 27 YEARS!

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashvill...for-hybrid.html

My wife drives from San Antonio to Santa Fe (south of Houston) just about every weekend to ride her horse at the trainer's
place. When she was driving my F150, she would end up filling up at least twice and sometimes three times at
about 20 gallons each time. After we bought our Prius, she now fills up once for the round trip, at only about 10 gallons.

Our gasoline bill was cut in a third by the end of the first month.

We drive the Prius just about everywhere now, and the trucks sit in the driveway until we need one of them to haul
stuff (or the horse trailer in the case of the F350) or we need to go separate ways at the same time.

On our yearly trip from San Antonio to West Virginia and South Carolina to visit family, we averaged about 46mpg for
the whole trip. Saved us a fortune on gasoline. I can only imagine what it would have cost us to drive the F150 like we
had in the past - especially with the price of gasoline over twice as much as it was just a couple of years ago.

__________________
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dale Marshall, San Antonio Texas
NAR #90990
Semroc SAM #083

BAR Since 2008
Enjoying model rocketry since 1977.
The Spotted Dragon
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

It seems all good now, driving the Prius and all, but you need to be putting all your savings in a place called "battery replacement account." When It comes time to replace that thing, it will be in the ballpark of around $7500.
You don't get something for nothing.
Wonder what the recycling costs are on the old battery. What happens to all that 'green' technology?
Any auto with batteries is bad. Period. You are fooling yourself if you think otherwise.
The Grid must still be tapped. The nickel still must be mined and processed, etc.

AND, we the other citizens get to pay the $7500 incentive credit for you to be able to buy the car in the first place and enjoy your wonderful gas mileage.

So, you see, there are no savings really...

Hope I can see that little thing over the hood of my Sequoia...How's the crash safety in that econobox?

Allen

Well, I'm hoping I have the same fortune with my Prius as my dad has had... he has one of the first models and in all
the time he's owned it he's never had to replace the battery or even the brakes. And he literally drives that thing
all over the country. From South Carolina to northern Pennsylvania several times a year for cancer treatments, to San
Antonio to visit me and my wife, to Vancouver, BC for vacation, etc. That thing has well over 150000 miles on it.

Batteries are recyclable, and in the US we recycle 99% of our old batteries (saw that on a neat show called "How Do
They Do It" about batteries). It's cheaper than making them new I'm sure. What kind of vehicle do you propose
that doesn't need batteries? Personally I think steam powered cars (saw one on an old show called "Beyond 2000"
that looked pretty good) would be a nice niche market, but it still would require a battery of some kind.

Oh, and I'm paying for that tax credit too, don't forget. And even if I got it (I think it had expired when I bought mine),
that's not the reason I bought it and it really wouldn't have made much difference to me anyway. You can read a post
from me about taxes in the Obamacare thread if you like and you'll see where I stand on these credits.

Don't get me wrong, I really like my F150 and I'd much rather be driving a truck where I can see everything around me.
But when you're spending over $800/month in gasoline, being able to cut that bill to around $300 or less is pretty nice.

As long as some idiot with more horsepower than brains doesn't decide to see if he can drive over me, I think I'll be
ok in my econobox. It's got more airbags than my trucks and it's at least as crashworthy as Federal standards dictate.
The acceleration is ok and the ride is pretty nice for a car, and my reaction times are still good enough to get me out
of the way of some fool (in a truck) who decided to exit the freeway from the middle lane when I was in the right lane.

__________________
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dale Marshall, San Antonio Texas
NAR #90990
Semroc SAM #083

BAR Since 2008
Enjoying model rocketry since 1977.
The Spotted Dragon
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

$7 a gallon gas in KrAzy Kalifornia... I might drive to NARAM ... hell I don't even know if I will go to NARAM 54 ... but I do know people there from my days in HUVARS; but will they still want to know me?! Well I do make Peter Alway laugh at times so maybe I might go

Here is the story ... $7 a gallon gas ... how many here can afford $150 a week fill ups at the pump? Mind you its not a very large island but still...

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012...nd-pass-7-mark/

J

And if you actually READ the article most people on the island either WALK or use GOLF CARTS to get around

Highest price right now listed at Gas Buddy is $5.99/gal Lowest is $3.95 and looks like the mean price is $4.05...

__________________
Jon
SAM #0396
BAR 02/07
NAR 86940
KF4GUL
Aim high, fly straight!

I for one will NEVER trade my high-horsepower engined vehicles fror some lily-livered sissy POS econobox.

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !