Save your beer, cigarette and ATV money and take at least one trip to Europe.

Why do I say that? Because the people that can afford to just up and go, will stay at expensive hotel, shop at expensive shops, and generally miss the point of having their eyes opened to a similar but different culture.

Stay a hostel, spend a night or two in nice and very affordable bed and breakfast (just be sure to review the breakfast menu first! There's some "unusual" choices.)

Sorry to say this be we Americans are spoiled, spoiled, spoiled.

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Shrox

Master of the Dark Art of Model Rocketry

www.shrox.com

A vacation as you describe I would decribe as not a vacation but an ORDEAL.
I think I'd rather sign up for a fantasy BOOT camp instead.
I don't consider ourselves to be spoiled at all; most US citizens have worked very hard for what we have, not to mention the US basically BAILED Europe out of TWO FREAKIN WORLD WARS, so in a way, we deserve it.
I HAPPILY work hard to make an upper-middle class income and would never even consider taking a VACATION that is actually LOWER than the standard I LIVE at; when on vacation I want LUXURY ABOVE and BEYOND my NORMAL standard of living; NOT some non-air conditioned DUMP hostel.
Probably the ONLY area of Europe I'm even remotely interested in visiting other than most of Italy is the city of Monte Carlo in Monaco, and I don't think ANY "budget" plan accomodations even remotely exist there.

I'm not meaning to sound snooty, but I for one am sick and tired of hearing from Europe and other world areas that we are spoiled; that is another HUGE LOAD of canine fecal matter almost always propogated by those that are not as well off as we are and often contains far more than a HINT of jealousy.

We do more, so we expect more. Maybe most of the Europeans should revolt against being taxed to death and then they would not have that sort of attitude. taxes in the USA are ridiculously HIGH as it is; I have NO idea how Europeans tolerate the usurious levels they put up with. Gasoline for like $10+/gal due to like 75% taxes; gimme a friggin break !!!

Don't even get me started on MAMBY-PAMBY France. As far as I'm concerned, that country should be kissing the ass of the USA in PERPETUITY !

My idea of a DECENT European vacation would consist of staying in AT LEAST a 4-star hotel, Laps blasting around the Nurburgring in a Porsche, Ferrari, or Corvette ZR1 or Z06, driving same said cars on Autobahn, then off to Monte Carlo for 5-star dining and poker. THAT would be a VACATION.

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When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, TURMOIL, FIASCOS, and HAVOC !

Friend,

You have done an excellent job proving what I have said about Americans being spoiled. And most American's inability to spell and a quite distorted view of history...the French "bailed us out" against England, remember the Revolutionry War of North America?

Thank you.

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Shrox

Master of the Dark Art of Model Rocketry

www.shrox.com

It's like Archie Bunker and Homer Simpson had a child and taught him how to read using old Ed Anger columns and then he got a really, really bad case of hemorrhoids.

Shrox,
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
What you consider "spoiled" I consider "deserving" due to hard work.
I guess this is a matter of philosophy and is often one of the key differences between liberals and conservatives. I am not saying I am one or you are another, it just appears typically along those political lines as well.

As far as the matter regarding France, no, I have not forgotten the Revolutionary War; that was in an altogether different era, but even counting that, we are still one up on them when one counts both WWI and WWII, which were far more modern, costing FAR more USA lives.
One would think France would be our closest Ally, not England who was our enemy in not only the Revolutionary War but the War of 1812 as well.

Most of those Europeans that think of us in the USA as spoiled are the first ones that would cry foul if their government guaranteed healthcare, welfare, and other nonsense European entitlements are cut; woebegone if you actually want them to work an 8-10 hr day regularly without 8 weeks of vacation per year.

By the way, I think it is insane to take a supposed vacation below the level your income can support. Why ANYONE would want to do that is pure nonsense to me.

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, TURMOIL, FIASCOS, and HAVOC !

Some people call such a vacation a "bargain".

Well, who makes your shoes, your clothes, the inexpensive electronics you can buy? And would you "lower" yourself to do such assembly line work for 14 hours a day at $2 a day at best?

When I was trying to get my own nosecones made, all US companies I contacted refused to bather with less than 5,000 units, basically forcing me to consider overseas production. That's a story in itself!

Europe and the US do live off this labor. So both are spoiled to a great extent.

By the way, if this is kept civil, I will enjoy discussing our opinions.

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Shrox

Master of the Dark Art of Model Rocketry

www.shrox.com

Don't really want to step into the fray, but I have a couple of comments..................

First of all, to GH, my read on Shrox's original post was that Americans have it really good compared to just about everyone else in the world, and they have grown accustomed to that.........................and OK, there's really nothing wrong with that.

Also GH, you're dead right on a couple of points...................Americans are the best business people in the WORLD, bar none, and they generally DO work hard...................so they deserve everything they have.

And the 'OWE' balance between USA and France definitely tips in the favor of the US. But hey, let's not forget the gift of the Statue of Liberty!

Finally, Shrox, you can't blame Americans for having a mature economy. So no, most Americans wouldn't work for $2 an hour, and why should they? It wouldn't pay their bills, while in many emerging economies, it WILL pay the bills. Eventually, as these foreign economies mature, workers will get higher expectations and will want more luxury items as their incomes continue to rise. And you know what? That will lead to increasingly higher wages, unions, etc. and, ultimately, to some of THEIR jobs going elsewhere, even back to the good old USA. Believe it, it will happen.

Joe (Canuck, USA booster)

All true, but I would describe our economy as "elderly" rather than mature, it matured three decades ago.

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Shrox

Master of the Dark Art of Model Rocketry

www.shrox.com

Yes, the exact thing has happened to Japan, Hong Kong, Taiwan and South Korea. It is starting to happen to China as wages are lower in Vietnam.

What chaps me was the large number of H1B visas granted to high tech workers. If they knew they are only going to live and work in this country for a limited amount of time, then take their savings offshore where the cost of living is much lower, of course they are willing to work for less and live in subsistance conditions for a few years. The contacts they made working over here lead directly to the massive outsourcing of jobs in the years which followed.


Bill

To each his own. I happen to enjoy backpacking. You would probably rather to go to Gitmo...


Bill