Hello All,

Today I tested the Testors Non-Toxic Cement for Plastic Models (the kind that comes in a blue tube) to see how well it might work for typical model rocketry applications. I tested it for balsa wood grain filling (on sheet balsa and a balsa nose cone), laminating paper onto sheet balsa, reinforcing the ends of a body tube, and bonding paper together. I also conducted one test (for comparison) using the regular (red-tube) Testors Cement for Plastic Models for laminating paper onto sheet balsa. The results were surprising.

The non-toxic cement was clear and had a pleasant, lemon-like scent. Its viscosity was thinner than I had expected; it flowed like warmed maple syrup. For balsa wood grain filling, I used a strip of cardstock to "squeegee" the cement onto a half-inch wide by six-inch long strip of 1/16" thick sheet balsa (from an Estes "220 Swift" kit). It readily soaked into the wood, and after the 4-hour full drying period listed on the tube it had hardened to a clear coating that did not leave any raised lumps (dried drops of excess cement, which I had intentionally left on some places). The balsa strip was stiffer that it had been before the cement was applied, and flexing it did not crack the shiny, cement-soaked surface.

I obtained similar results with the balsa nose cone (a short, pointed ogive BT-20 nose cone from a Custom Rockets "Twister" kit). The cement did not completely fill its balsa wood grain, but its surface was quite hard after the cement dried. Also:

I had inserted the shoulder of the Twister's nose cone into its body tube, to hold it upright while the cement dried. When I checked it later, I found that a small amount of the excess cement had run down the nose cone and soaked into much of the upper 3/16" of the body tube, from the inside of the tube. I feared that the nose cone had inadvertently glued itself into the body tube, but the cement had not bonded the two parts together at all. However:

The upper part of the body tube where the cement had soaked in and dried was hard and stiff, *but* the cement had -not- left lumps on the inside of the tube. Where the cement had soaked into the inside wall of the brown kraft paper body tube, it had darkened the tube. I squeezed more of the non-toxic cement ~3/4" inside the tube and also applied some to the upper ~1/2" of the outside of the tube, then "squeegeed" it smoothly and uniformly onto the inside and outside of the body tube. The cement did not soak into the outside of the tube because the outer glassine coating prevented this, but it dried into a very thin, clear layer. The cement-soaked area of the inside of the tube was darkened, and the cement did not leave any layer or lumps on the inside of the tube; the nose cone fit into the tube as well as it had before. In addition:

I used another 1/2" X 6" X 1/16" strip of sheet balsa to test the non-toxic cement's laminating properties. After "squeegee-ing" a thin layer of cement onto half of one side of the balsa strip, I pressed it down onto a sheet of 20 pound (75 grams per square meter) Georgia-Pacific "Copy & Print" paper (ordinary computer printer paper). For comparison, I did the same with another balsa strip, using the red-tube Testors Cement for Plastic Models (holding my breath to avoid breathing its irritating vapors). Four and a half hours later, the paper that I had laminated onto sheet balsa using the non-toxic cement peeled right off--it had not bonded to the balsa at all! (In complete contrast, the red-tube Testors cement bonded the paper to the balsa so completely that when I tried to peel the paper off, its upper layer tore, leaving the rest of the paper irremovably stuck to the balsa. Incidentally, none of this cement had soaked through the paper, and neither did it wrinkle the paper or leave lumps in the paper, even though I had intentionally applied too much of the cement to the balsa in a "glob-by" layer.) As well:

The non-toxic cement did not bond paper to itself at all (at least not the paper I used). I pressed two strips of the printer paper together with a thin layer of cement. Strangely, the cement seemed to *repel* the paper strips apart, not unlike the way the metal leaves of an electroscope are pushed apart when an electrical charge is present. I repeated this test using an abundant amount of cement, with the same results. My conclusion:

I would not dream of using the non-toxic Testors cement for assembling a plastic model kit, let alone for gluing the balsa fins of a model rocket onto its body tube, but it *is* useful for some model rocketry applications nonetheless. It "finds its calling" as a 'soak-in' stiffening, surface hardening, and waterproofing agent (in the manner of thin, "wicking" cyanoacrylate glues) for sheet balsa, balsa nose cones, body tubes, and motor mount tubes.

I hope this information will be helpful.

__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

Quite interesting results indeed!

So you could use this cement to do some "anti-zipper" application at the top of a body tube?

How was the surface of the fins after it dried on them?
Was it smooth and grain-free?
Does it sand?
Did you try spraying primer on the fins and body tube to see how they would look?

I have a tube of the stuff and I agree it doesn't seem to work very well in boding plastic and anything else but
I never thought to try it on balsa as a filler/stiffener.

__________________
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Dale Marshall, San Antonio Texas
NAR #90990
Semroc SAM #083

BAR Since 2008
Enjoying model rocketry since 1977.
The Spotted Dragon
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I've been planning on doing a similar test with Testor's wood cement in the brown tube. Typically used in stick and tissue airplane modelling. I've tried using it to adhere fins to tubes. Gluing right to the glassine coating will result in the fin eventually coming off of the tube easily. However if you sand the coating of the tube off then it will work fine. I haven't tried the other tests such as papering , nose cone sealing etc.....

I think so! This morning, after the glue in and on the end of the BT-20 tube had dried completely, that end of the tube was quite strong and stiff, yet -not- brittle (which pleasantly surprised me); it flexed under a compression load (squeezing it between my thumb and forefinger) at which a BT-20 tube normally creases under the pressure. I repeatedly squeezed that end of the tube into an oval shape, and it returned to round.The grain (which was pretty "closed" to begin with) of the Estes "220 Swift" balsa fin stock strips that I used is mostly filled now. Additional coats of the non-toxic Testors cement would completely fill the grain. Also, I just intentionally bent one of each strip (one coated with the non-toxic Testors cement, the other coated with the regular Testors cement) to the breaking point, to see how each would respond. They both required significantly more force to break than an un-coated balsa strip. In both cases, the glue did *not* crack first--that is, it wasn't brittle--but the regular Testors cement was slightly "gummy" (as if tiny streamers of taffy were holding the broken pieces of balsa wood together). In addition:

The Custom Rockets "Twister" balsa nose cone, whose grain is more open, showed the partial (most of the way) grain-filling more prominently, and its surface (which "drank in" a significant amount of the thin cement) is now quite hard, like the surface of an injection-molded styrene plastic nose cone.It is smoother than before; one or two additional coats should get it to "mirror-smooth."I don't know yet, because I can't find my #$&^% sanding film! (A contractor installed new fire sprinklers and line-powered smoke detectors in all of our building's apartments last year, and a lot of my hurriedly-stored belongings are still scattered throughout numerous un-labeled storage boxes...) However, I think it will sand just fine, as the surface is quite hard with no "gummy-ness."No. It has been chilly out, and today it's forecast to rain. Also, since I'm not sure how my landlady would react if she saw me with a rocket or parts of one (being disabled public housing, we're not allowed to have any weapons or destructive devices), I'm leery of spray-painting rockets outside where they could be seen, and with my respiratory system condition I wouldn't dare try an indoor spray-painting booth. (I know that model rockets are legal to have, but victories over government agencies in such matters are often pyrrhic.) I'll try brush-on acrylic paint to see how it works.I wouldn't have either, if the owner of a local hobby shop hadn't mentioned its "off purpose" usefulness. I'm doubly happy because this non-toxic Testors cement doesn't irritate my sinuses or lungs; in fact, it actually smells good!

__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

Although it isn't my favorite cement for rocket-building by a long shot, I think that--for small models, at least--the Testors wood cement may be desirable in some cases. I believe it dries quickly (if memory serves). If so, it (and other companies' glues of its type) could be useful in group kit-building projects with Scouts, 4-H Clubs, Civil Air Patrol units, and private schools (many public schools might allow only white and yellow glues). Also:

In his "Handbook of Model Rocketry," G. Harry Stine also recommended sanding the glassine coating off body tubes where the fins and launch lug(s) are glued on, and not only for the Testors wood cement and other companies' equivalent products. In addition, he wrote in that book that "Model airplane glues, such as Testors Formula B, Pactra C-77, Ambroid, and Du Pont Duco Cement, are used for gluing balsa to itself or to fiber or paper body tubes. They will also glue paper together. They will bond some plastics but are not considered optimum for use on plastics because they will often melt some kinds of plastic." Now:

If they will weld together styrene and ABS plastic, such glues might (if used carefully with adult guidance) be useful in group-building situations where time is precious. There isn't always a "best" cement or paint for use in all situations; sometimes other factors--such as limited available time for building sessions--can make a product that is normally considered inferior for an application be the most desirable one. As well, I would be curious regarding how the Testors wood glue works for papering balsa fins and filling balsa wood grain (I have heard of this glue being mixed with balsa dust for use in filleting the wing/fuselage joints on model airplanes).

__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

Wow. It appears there may be an actual FUNCTIONAL use for Testors "Blue Tube" glue for sealing/strengthening wood/cardboard.
I think due to long drying time and overall very high cost/volume of product, Sanding Sealer, Balsa Fillercoat, Epoxy, and CA are all better for this purpose.
If the Green and Yellow Tube Testors Wood Cements were still available in the Large-size 1.5 oz tubes, those would also be better economically, and still are better in relation to drying time.

Useful for something ? Yes.
Best choice for anything ? NO !

__________________
When in doubt, WHACK the GAS and DITCH the brake !!!

Yes, there is such a thing as NORMAL, if you have to ask what is "NORMAL" , you probably aren't !
Failure may not be an OPTION, but it is ALWAYS a POSSIBILITY.
ALL systems are GO for MAYHEM, CHAOS, and HAVOC !

I'm pleasantly surprised myself. I am particularly impressed with how the "Blue Tube" Testors cement soaked right into the inside wall of the BT-20 tube (leaving -no- layer of dried cement on the surface, thus not altering the fit of the nose cone at all) and gave the end of the tube on which I applied it the consistency of hard, semi-rigid rubber! That end of the tube is now definitely zipper-resistant. I'll look for my sanding film so that I can experiment with completely filling and sanding the grain of the balsa strips and the balsa nose cone, and I'll see how acrylic and enamel paints adhere to the cement-treated surfaces. Also:

While the "Blue Tube" Testors cement wouldn't bond strips of printer/copier paper together at all (it actually made the strips *repel* each other somewhat), it soaked into the paper completely and did not wrinkle it at all, as white glue does. I'm going to test an hypothesis that, if correct, would make this cement very useful for scale modeling work. I'll let the cement soak into two strips of the paper, let them dry, and then apply more cement (Stine's "double-glue joint" method) to see if they will then bond to each other. If it works, intricate paper details (raised panels, corrugations, etc.), that would be both strong and wrinkle-free, could be applied to scale models. It would even (assuming that this test works) be possible to mold accurately-sized-and-shaped paper corrugations that could be glued strongly to body tubes. In this case, the cement's four hour-long drying time would be an advantage, allowing plenty of time to move or re-shape paper parts.

__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

Been using it for 3 decades, works just fine for plastic models be they planes, tanks, or trains - or plastic rocket parts to each other or to cardboard. Well, at least it works fine for me.

The balsa filling is something I'd have never guessed, interesting, very interesting.

Another very interesting thing.

__________________
later, Forrest "Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality." -- Nikola Tesla, Modern Mechanics and Inventions, July, 1934

The non-toxic kind that comes in the blue tubes? I don't know if it's been around that long. The "red tube" (formerly "orange-and-white tube") Testors plastic cement has been around for several decades, and it's worked well on plastic models for me. I seem to vaguely recall another variety of Testors cement that came in blue (actually, blue-and-white) tubes that I saw 30 and 40 years ago, but I think it was a formula intended for balsa model airplanes--maybe it was (or wasn't) fuel-proof, perhaps being intended for gliders and rubber band-powered balsa model airplanes? Or maybe it was a balsa wood-filling putty? I don't know--that was many Moons ago! :-)I'll try multiple coats of it on the balsa strips and nose cone (I'll sand them when I find my sanding film or, failing that, I'll buy more soon), and I'll also try the double-glue joint paper bonding--I didn't do much today because of the pollen in the air.

__________________
Black Shire--Draft horse in human form, model rocketeer, occasional mystic, and writer, see:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
NAR #54895 SR

Yep, used it all the way from early 1980s: even used it to laminate some shee styrene for a scratchbuilt freelance locomotive body. Possible late 1970s - remember getting in trouble working on a Revell 1/72 A-7 Corsair II in my bedroom because Mom smelled the different glue, which I had expected wouldn't clue her in. Think that memory is accurate - will look to see if can find origin date of the blue tubes.

Edit - just wrote Testors on their website. Not expecting an answer 9 o'clock sharp tomorrow morning, though.

Edit 2 - not sure that's the blue tube, blue smells citrusy to me.
"In 1969, Testor pioneered sniff-proof glue by adding mustard oil to its formula. The additive, which was intended to protect youth from inhaling harmful fumes, made sniffing glue extremely unpleasant, if not impossible. Testor made its formula available to other glue manufacturers at no charge and supported legislation in several states, including New York and New Jersey, which intended to make such additives mandatory."
http://www.answers.com/topic/the-testor-corporation

Edit 3 - Google just found this,
"tbzep 03-31-2010 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Also, Testors now has a non-toxic version of their tube-type cement that is packaged in light blue tubes; the owner of our local hobby shop told me that it does a lousy job of bonding plastic joints but works well for paper joints. Since Testors now has this "safe" alternative glue, it would make sense if they changed the "dangerous" glue back to the original formula.


The "safe" non-toxic blue tube has been around for decades. It was just as terrible back then as it is now.

I doubt the regular orange/red tube or liquid cements have been changed back to the old formula. There's just too much govt. regulation and too many lawyers.

Tennax 7R is where it's at. "
http://www.oldrocketforum.com/printthread.php?t=6842

__________________
later, Forrest "Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality." -- Nikola Tesla, Modern Mechanics and Inventions, July, 1934