It's big? You mean, like this?

Mark \\.

__________________
SAM # 0011

They stole my idea!

__________________
David Hash
NAR#77967
http://www.Semroc.com

Man, I picked a bad week to be on the road away from my stash of scale data and Rocksim files! I would love to see Semroc rolling out with some at least "semi scale", especially given the great variety of tube sizes available. Of the originally proposed list, I would think the Nike's would be biggest sellers, other than the clearly significant pent up demand for a Saturn V.

Re: the Javelin, I think that would be an excellent scale candidate, though probably not quite as popular/well known. In fact, when scale altitude was announced for NARAM-49, I originally opted for one of those, flown in a 3-stage configuration, and Semroc was the only place I could get all the tubing. I wound up scratching that idea, though, when I realized the prototype mock-up really couldn't achieve very good altitude carrying all that extra weight initially and the inevitable staging tip-off compared to a basic minimum diameter sounding rocket, so I never finished one.

One thing to keep in mind, though, as we salivate over all the possibilities. I know Carl's probably looking at this as a labor of love/benefit to his customer base, but there probably needs to be at least a breakeven profit plan on a new kit. Scale kits are lots of development work and tend to be less appealing to the model rocketry community, so very low volume. This is especially true as you move from semi scale that looks about right closer to true scale that holds up well when you break out the calipers.

The Black Brant series are probably among the biggest sellers, but already pretty well saturated by ARG. I'm thinking Nike's would be the next best bet--not terribly difficult to build and paint, so a good first model in the world of scale.

What would REALLY be sweet is if there were a few of these that could take advantage of Semroc motors, though I'm under the impression motors are still a few years away...

YES! Then I don't have to spend umpteen zillion buying an old FSI version of this kit on eBay.

__________________
Scott D. Hansen
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe - Your One Stop BAR Shoppe!
Ye Olde Rocket Plans - OOP Rocket Plans From 38 Companies!
Ye Olde Rocket Forum
WOOSH NAR Section #558

Some random thoughts...

I would love to see Semroc reissue the Javelin as a kit. I am planning on cloning the FSI Javelin (part of my ongoing FSI project) with Semroc parts, but if Carl creates a kit for it, I'll happily go with that, instead! I agree with Chan that scale modeling is a more specialized branch of the hobby, but after seeing what people did with those Saturn 1B's, I think there is definitely a market for them. Many BARs and adult rocketeers go from constructing sport model rockets to building sport high power rockets in order to keep challenging their modeling skills, only to run into the dual brick walls of expense and access to launch sites. But there's another way to really challenge yourself: building to accurate scale. Each builder can decide to what degree of accuracy he or she wants to build, but, as I am starting to find out, even getting reasonably faithful on the major features (such as in the fins, for example) can involve lots of problem-solving, even when one possesses all the scale info needed. You CAN build to scale without needing to spend a fortune to outfit your shop with all of those sophisticated and expensive tools in the Micro-Mark catalog, if you use a little ingenuity. Having good scale info is key, but so is having a supplier of accurately scaled parts, or, even better, a supplier of a scale kit.

Aside from the Argo/Javelin, I think that Chan is right that the Nike-boosted sounding rockets would probably be good choices. Also, a kit of the Aerobee-Hi with the booster stage would be really good, too, as so would be the others that Carl listed. Looking at the competition, Dr. Zooch already produces a variety of scale kits, originally concentrating on the Saturn series, and now branching out. His kits are almost all of space race-era manned launch vehicles and test vehicles from the US and the Soviet Union. I don't have any of them, but they all seem to be about the same size and scale (15" to 18" tall, flying on a single B or C motor). ASP also makes scale kits, but Andy hasn't created any new ones in several years. Aside from the WAC Corporals, most of his kits are of relatively less-well known rockets from outside of North America and Russia. There are several makers of Nike Smokes, but they are almost all high-power versions. The exception was the now-discontinued Quest Nike Smoke, but that version utilized a multitude of molded plastic parts (it was, in fact, a Quik-Kit). I haven't seen much evidence that kit makers have offered scale kits of any of the other Nike-boosted sounding rockets either now or in the past. Deci-scale kits, ranging, for the most part, from 20" to around 50" in length (similar in size to the SLS kits) and from 1" to around 2.34" in diameter would be big enough to be "detailable" (without being too much so) while being small enough to be flyable in most of the fields that most of us can access.

Just some gut reactions, not necessarily totally thought out!

Mark \\.

__________________
SAM # 0011

Well, Enertek WAS planning to bring out a Nike-Cajun...

http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/ca...89enertek4.html


Bob

Gah.

Unless you are buying FSI kits for your collection, I would pass on all of them.

I bought the Nike-Smoke and Sandhawk FSI kits direct from FSI back around 1990.

The Sandhawk nose cone had a circumferential 'gouge' all the way around it.

The Nike-Smoke was worse. The nose cone was not to the correct shape while no two fins were the same size/shape.

I built the Nike-Smoke, replacing the kit motor mount tube for one that could hold 29mm diameter motors.

I flew it at NARAM-33 with an AeroTech E15-7W motor.

As for Black Brant kits, I understand the ARG kits are very nice. I have the Cosmodrome Black Brant II which is very nice and I hope to build it, someday.

A line of Semroc scale kits?! Carl, my wallet can't take it!

Bob

Attached Thumbnails

     

The transition on my Eos wasn't worth having. The shoulders were too short, and the ends weren't co-axial; it made the rocket crooked. I turned a replacement out of cedar.

And the BT-55 tubing on my Echo 1 was really a sloppy fit...oh, that's because it was BT-56

Did someone tell me the balsa pieces being sold at Firefox are leftovers from FSI?

Doug

.

__________________
YORF member #11

That's why I'm happy to save my money, and instead clone the designs using parts from Semroc!

Mark \\.

__________________
SAM # 0011

Here is a comparison between two variants of the same basic design. What intrigues me the most is realizing how much better the older version was, when you use the same power in each stage. The three-fin version whips the younger four-fin version each time, so in the real world, the newer "Model A" had to be using a much-improved powerplant, or much lighter components, in order to have justified the penalties it suffered.

The models are matched to their respective lengths as shown on the various data sheets.

Specifications:

Aerobee 150 Standard:

Length: 35.66"
Diameter: 1.54" (BT-58)
Fin Span: 6.24"
Weight: 3.3 oz


Aerobee 150 A:

Length: 36.70"
Diameter: 1.54" (BT-58)
Fin Span: 6.17"
Weight: 3.42 oz


Flight Performance:


Std......D12-0 / C11-5......1226'......Dv 21 FPS
A........D12-0 / C11-5...... 988'......Dv 10 FPS
Std......D12-0 / C6-5.......1319'......Dv 4 FPS
A........D12-0 / C6-5.......1062'......Dv 28 FPS
Std......D12-0 / D12-5......1608'......Dv 24 FPS
A........D12-0 / D12-5......1307'......Dv 9 FPS
Std......D12-0 / E9-6.......2140'......Dv 3 FPS
A........D12-0 / E9-4.......1738'......Dv 32 FPS
A........D12-0 / E9-6.......1751'......Dv 32 FPS


The A150A has been revised just a little, to maintain a component match with the A150 as closely as possible.

I'll try to get the A300 "Sparrowbee" next...

Enjoy!

Attached Thumbnails

       

Attached Files

	Aerobee 150 Standard.rkt (104.2 KB, 9 views)
	Aerobee 150A.rkt (118.2 KB, 8 views)

__________________
Craig McGraw

BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com
BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com
BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum

BARs helping BARs

SAM 0044
AMA 352635