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  #1  
Old 08-17-2016, 06:39 AM
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blackshire blackshire is offline
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Default ARF Me 163 RG!

Hello All,

Being a long-time Me 163 Komet fancier, I was pleasantly surprised to come across this ARF Me 163 R/C scale model (see: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9tDy5rlEBQ ), which is designed to use standard model rocket motors. It has a high-powered, nose-mounted brushless electric motor which turns a slightly up-scaled propeller (the full-scale Komet had a nose-mounted generator with a propeller-type slipstream wind turbine; the model uses this as its tractor propeller). With this alone, it is capable of blistering speeds and snap maneuvers, and the R/C-ignited rocket motor option gives it even greater acceleration and velocity.
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Old 08-17-2016, 09:18 AM
Brent Brent is offline
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Wonder how hard it is to fly. I have not flown RC in years and that was a trainer.
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  #3  
Old 08-17-2016, 10:42 AM
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burkefj burkefj is offline
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You'd have to be comfortable with a fairly quick aileron plane. The 18mm mount is designed for C motors which just are more for show in this plane given the weight, its designed for air start when flying not for ground launch.. You have to epoxy plug the bp motors so they don't eject and throw off your CG, which is a motor modification so not NAR and AMA approved, if you fly at your own field it doesn't matter. Or you could work out some venting scheme. You coud try the 18mm aerotech D 2.3 but again given the weight of the model and the thrust of these motors at around 6 ounces they are just an aerial effect more than any real boost gain compared to the electric motor thrust. There is an arf Klima sells for their rocket motors but their motors don't have enough thrust to take off vertically, you have to use a ramp type setup.

Frank


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
Wonder how hard it is to fly. I have not flown RC in years and that was a trainer.
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Last edited by burkefj : 08-17-2016 at 10:59 AM.
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  #4  
Old 08-19-2016, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbzep
What? No T-stoff and Z-stoff? Where's the fun in that?
.
** Wistful Sigh ** Just as real turbojet and turboprop engines were powerplants that R/C jet modelers wanted badly for decades and finally got, liquid propellant rocket engines are a missing propulsion option that our hobby should have. (Watered-down T-Stoff [hydrogen peroxide] might be a candidate oxidizer for model-size liquid propellant engines, although the Z-Stoff would be nasty in any concentration--a T-Stoff monopropellant engine might be practical for hobbyist use.) Also:

Because of the unenlightened NAR attitude toward the operation of model rocket motors in horizontal flight, it's possible that such rocket engines might come from the model aviation community. (I appreciate the potential risks which underlie the NAR's prohibition of horizontal-flying rocket planes, but since far more powerful jet engines power R/C jet models at public displays safely, there's no reason why rocket planes can't do the same.) Scale models of rocket planes such as the Me 163, MX-324, XP-79A (Future/Fiction Scale; only the turbojet-powered XP-79B flew), X-1, X-2, X-15, and XCOR Aerospace's vehicles would be great applications for hobbyist liquid propellant rocket engines (so would scale models of liquid propellant ballistic missiles and sounding rockets).
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Old 08-19-2016, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
I want ACTUAL T-stoff and Z-stoff propulsion.
What good is a liquid-fuel rocket motor with no dangerous-chemical factor ?
RFNA would be a fun oxidizer too with almost any fuel, especially if it is a hypergolic mix.
Most AMA R/C fields would probably BAN you and your aircraft after one flight, but the one flight would be a FUN runway WRECKER !
Nyuk, yuk, yuk !
Nitric acid is also medicinally useful; I once used a few drops of the 10 molar stuff to remove callouses from my left hand. They smoked, turned yellow, and fell off soon afterward, revealing healthy and supple skin underneath. (Speaking of liquid rockets, yesterday I was looking thoughtfully at cans of R-134a refrigerant in the Auto Supplies section of my Wal-Mart. They were threaded just like my cans of Estes RP-100 Cold Propellant were...) Also:

The reaction I got when I wrote to the AMA looking for Horten (Gotha) Go 229 flying wing fighter scale data for a twin-Dynajet-powered R/C model was near-panic, and that was from a mere *letter*. An actual rocket-powered R/C Komet flight at an AMA field would be...interesting, reaction-wise.
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:20 AM
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Doug Sams Doug Sams is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackshire
Hello All,

Being a long-time Me 163 Komet fancier, I was pleasantly surprised to come across this ARF Me 163 R/C scale model (see: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9tDy5rlEBQ ), which is designed to use standard model rocket motors. It has a high-powered, nose-mounted brushless electric motor which turns a slightly up-scaled propeller (the full-scale Komet had a nose-mounted generator with a propeller-type slipstream wind turbine; the model uses this as its tractor propeller). With this alone, it is capable of blistering speeds and snap maneuvers, and the R/C-ignited rocket motor option gives it even greater acceleration and velocity.
FWIW, here's Dave Schaeffer's Me163 flight at BALLs 21 (2012). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kItaMa7df2w

In the beginning, that's Dave hooking up the ignitor while Paul Holmes looks on. The motor was an I-161.

Dave said the CG was super critical, that there was only a narrow range for it to reside while maintaining stability.

Doug

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Old 08-19-2016, 10:43 AM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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SOMEBODY removed my original post...

Thankfully Blackshire captured it.

REGULAR Nitric Acid (70%) is a far cry from RFNA although still a potent oxidizer, it cannot be used for rocket propulsion directly.
Up until 9/11/01 you could get that stuff at independent pharmacies around me without a signature.
Now there are few that have it and require signature.
When a freshman at the University of Michigan back in 1988 I was in the chemlab for the lab portion of Inorganic Chemistry II and I noticed a small yellow stain on the palm of my left hand. I quickly washed it then asked the Lab Professor that I knew from my hometown "what do Nitric Acid burns look like ?"...she asked why and I showed her my hand....she replied "Yep, that's what they look like"...lol....it did NOT cause any pain and just a bit of skin flaked off in a 1"x1/4" patch. It looked perfectly normal in about a week. Sulfuric Acid burns on the other hand are very painful and should be avoided at all cost....
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  #8  
Old 08-19-2016, 10:45 AM
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burkefj burkefj is offline
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I fly rocket gliders at my ama field all the time, it depends on the local field conditions and restrictions you may have, we cannot fly turbines at our field for example. There are a lot of dynajet flyers now that hobbyking has imported a relatively inexpensive version, however there is a high fire danger with those if you have any crash as you have gasoline and a hot ignition source, so many are concerned about that. I dont' think ama prevents horizontal rocket flight, air starts are ok as long as they are 100' above the ground in controlled flight I believe, as an example. But AMA does defer to NAR rules for rocket flights, which is why a motor modification is probably a no-no at an ama field, I do those flights on private property.

As for the ME 163 I've done a version and yes on flyng wings it's tough to get the CG far enough back for boost that it isnt' too nose heavy on glide for the elevons, and not too tail heavy so it is very twitchy on boost.

Frank
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Last edited by burkefj : 08-19-2016 at 11:05 AM.
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  #9  
Old 08-28-2016, 03:22 PM
tab28682 tab28682 is offline
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I have both the original Hobbyking Me-163 that was designed for electric only, that I converted to have an18mm motor mount, and the newer version that has a different electric power system and a built in 18mm motor mount.

Here is a video of my early version HK Me-163 flying electric with an air started C6:

https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=9NbLpHf0ZDA

I have acquired a few D10 SU motors for future air starts.

Another Me-163 kit option is the Kilma foam ARF model that is set up for pure rocket power. I have one of these under construction currently. This kit is derived from the Hacker Me-163 electric ARF kit.

http://www.raketenmodellbau-klima.d...&t=23&c=31&p=31

It will likely use D10s for vertical launch from the ground and, alternatively, D2.3 reloads for an air start after a piggyback ride up on an RC motherrship.
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  #10  
Old 08-29-2016, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tab28682
I have both the original Hobbyking Me-163 that was designed for electric only, that I converted to have an18mm motor mount, and the newer version that has a different electric power system and a built in 18mm motor mount.

Here is a video of my early version HK Me-163 flying electric with an air started C6:

https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=9NbLpHf0ZDA

I have acquired a few D10 SU motors for future air starts.

Another Me-163 kit option is the Kilma foam ARF model that is set up for pure rocket power. I have one of these under construction currently. This kit is derived from the Hacker Me-163 electric ARF kit.

http://www.raketenmodellbau-klima.d...&t=23&c=31&p=31

It will likely use D10s for vertical launch from the ground and, alternatively, D2.3 reloads for an air start after a piggyback ride up on an RC motherrship.
Thank you for posting this, Tom. Your first (YouTube) video link didn't take me to your video, but instead to a collection of miscellaneous videos on multiple subjects, and your Me-163 video wasn't among them. The Klima link (and the video of their Me-163 on that page), however, worked just fine. The initial simulated grainy black & white footage of their Me-163 model, plus Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries" music, were wunderbar touches! Also, it appeared that they used fuse ignition to light that red Me-163's Klima rocket motor (if it's good enough for the Germans, it ought to be good enough for us).
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http://www.lulu.com/content/paperba...an-form/8075185
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6122050
http://www.lulu.com/product/cd/what...of-2%29/6126511
All of my book proceeds go to the Northcote Heavy Horse Centre www.northcotehorses.com.
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