Thanks for this information. There's a guy in our club who uses and swears by Firefox pyrogens but his main interest is high power composites so I've been a little hazy on their use for BP. Armed with this knowledge, I think I'm going to try making igniters in the near future.

The conductive pyrogen certainly seems to be a whole lot easier than soldering bridge wires. Seems almost like cheating, but supposedly it works fine.

Note that one good source for igniter wires is igniter wires! At a high power launch people use commercial igniters a foot or more long once and then discard them. These discards can be reused to make new igniters. (Might be too thick for some small motors though.)

Chris Michielssen has been experimenting with re-dipping Estes Starters in pyrogen from quickburst.net. http://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.../label/Igniters Obviously that approach doesn't address either of the problems of lead length and per-igniter cost mentioned here but it might suit some people concerned mainly about Starter performance. Chris apparently hasn't written anything yet about how well they work compared with undipped Starters though. Hm, I wonder what a good way to do quantitative testing would be.

__________________
Rich Holmes
Camillus, NY
Secretary / newsletter editor
Syracuse Rocket Club

http://richsrockets.wordpress.com

I've used the Quickburst igniters on my last two launch sessions. I typically launch five rockets per session.
One schoolyard launch was with my 6 volt Estes controller, the other with a club 12 volt system.
As expected, the 6 volt controller took just a moment (very slight) to ignite the engines.
The 12 volt system at the club launch was instantaneous.

Even with the 6 volt controller, Quickburst ignition was faster than the Estes Starter without pyrogen.

__________________
Hans "Chris" Michielssen
Old/New NAR # 19086 SR

www.oddlrockets.com
www.modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com
http://www.nar.org/educational-reso...ing-techniques/
Your results may vary
"Nose cones roll, be careful with that."
Every spaceman needs a ray gun.
Look out - I'm the Meister Shyster!

.... and no soldering required when done per Quickburt's kit instructions/video.

My only issue with Quickburst is keeping the dip from drying out. The supplied container doesn't keep the acetone from evaporating. I started making them when older FirstFire Jrs. supplied with single-use composite D10s and D21s failed and failed and failed - this was 4-5 years ago. I've never had the need/desire to use them on a BP motor - but I've never done an electric air-start with any kind of motor.

I just use regular short Q2G2s for clusters - including my 5xB cluster models at NARAM last year. But these all have motors close together. I can see needing longer leads for a scale model or something with motors much more widely spaced-apart than minimum diameter-ish arrangements. I hadn't thought of using ematches or QuickBurst/Firefox type igniters for that kind of application. Interesting thought.....

I've never had issues with Estes starters for single motor use, even the little Astron II 9V controller or any 4AA-cell powered handheld (Solar, Electron Beam) so I don't see the need there to dip 'em. For drag racing I'll use a regular Q2G2 .

If they take a bit of time to start the motor they may be able to be reused.

__________________
Bernard Cawley
NAR 89040 L1 - Life Member
SAM 0061
AMA 42160
KG7AIE

3" Q2G2 igniters are plenty long enough for me. My main reason for preferring them over (older pyrogen-equipped) Estes igniters is the low firing current; I believe it results in ignition that is closer to simultaneous. Importantly, it means the rocket is less likely to be ascending up the rod with one or more still-unfired igniters dragging the clips up the rod (yes, I've seen that, photographically of course). Too much chance of the unfired igniter(s) being pulled out before they can fire.

__________________
NAR # 115523
Once upon a better day... SAM #0076
My site: http://rocketry.gonnerman.org

Okay, just did the research on the Firefox Conductive Pyrogen... have to say, it's pretty exciting. Under $20.00 for 400 igniters worth of pyrogen, just add acetone and some wires, and I have a pile of scrap solid-core Cat 5 cable that should make perfect lead wires.

Really, really think I'm going to try this.

__________________
NAR # 115523
Once upon a better day... SAM #0076
My site: http://rocketry.gonnerman.org

I agree, the dip can dry out.
The Quickburst instructions say to add a tablespoon of acetone once a month so it won't dry out. Today it's been one month since I first mixed it up. Time to add some acetone.

For right now I don't have a need to make igniters from bare wire. I just gathered all my Estes Starters and MMX igniters and dipped those.
The newer dipped MMX igniters can be used in 18 and 24mm engines.

I re-use the MMX igniters and have plenty of extras. I'll save a few dozen un-dipp for regular MMX ignition.

__________________
Hans "Chris" Michielssen
Old/New NAR # 19086 SR

www.oddlrockets.com
www.modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com
http://www.nar.org/educational-reso...ing-techniques/
Your results may vary
"Nose cones roll, be careful with that."
Every spaceman needs a ray gun.
Look out - I'm the Meister Shyster!

One thing I noticed on the Firefox page is, there are a couple of conductive pyrogens, and they seem to require 9V to ignite. The non conductive ones, which you use with nichrome bridge wires, at least in some cases they say can be ignited with 1.5V. Not sure if that correlates with ignition time but if so it might suggest igniters for clusters should be done with bridge wires and non conductive pyrogen.

Of course if someone actually knows what they're talking about, unlike me, I'd be glad to shut up and listen.

__________________
Rich Holmes
Camillus, NY
Secretary / newsletter editor
Syracuse Rocket Club

http://richsrockets.wordpress.com

I have a 12V launch system, so that's not directly an issue. I'd expect to spend some time experimenting. Remember they are thinking ematch rather than igniter... the smaller leads etc. might alter the behavior somewhat.

__________________
NAR # 115523
Once upon a better day... SAM #0076
My site: http://rocketry.gonnerman.org