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  #1  
Old 12-07-2016, 12:18 PM
stefanj stefanj is offline
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Default Renegade-D-to-C

A few years ago I bought an Estes "Renegade-D". This was a re-work of what was originally a two-stage kit. There were reports of instability and scary flights to Estes took out the second stage motor mount, made the remaining motor mount 24mm, and changed the directions so you glued the stages together.

Well!

I took this as a challenge. All those fins! Two body tubes! A coupler! How could I not turn it back into a two-stager? It should fly stably o a C11-0/D12-0 to B6-6 / C6-7.

Mods:

* I put a 18mm mount in the second stage.

* Added vent holes to the lower stage centering rings.

* I swapped two of the upper stage fins for trapezoidal fins from an Interceptor kit. (These were provided by Frank Burke, who uses Interceptors as raw ingredients for his boost glider models.) This made the upper stage look more space plane like.

* Added a launch lug to the under-surface of the booster stage.

* Will add fake nozzles to the bottom of the "fuel tanks," which look more like boosters to me anyway.

* Will add little "cosmetic" canard fins to the upper stage.

Right now I'm filling and sanding the lower stage fins. Easier to do that before they get glued on.

I'd be open to suggestions on how to best glue the fin tip pods to the large booster stage fins.

Pictures later.
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  #2  
Old 12-08-2016, 05:35 AM
Scott_650 Scott_650 is online now
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Has there been a determination as to why the original 2-stage Renegade wasn't consitently stable? Being a relatively newish BAR I wasn't aware of the Renegade-D origin.

The pods are plastic, right? Always problematic getting plastic and wood together without adding lots of heavy adhesive just where you don't want it - in the tail of the rocket. Years ago I used Testors cement and then added a fillet of Elmers Glue-All - worst of both worlds since it didn't hold well and added weight. So no help on how to do it but some obviuos advice on how not to!
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:58 PM
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tmacklin tmacklin is offline
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I recently rebuilt my two stage Renegade, replacing the original 18 mm motor mount with a 24 mm mount. The original design was woefully under powered with a C6-0 booster to a C6-5 sustainer, and this last spring I proved it at Gunter, Texas when my sustainer ended up in the nearby lake. (I chronicled my successes and failures on Bernie Sanders' Sagitta Cantina, here

http://forum.starportsagitta.net/vi...f7ca97a61#p2057

In any event, it is once again rebuilt and I am confident that it will fly correctly once weather and field conditions improve. I think I will take stefani's suggestion and add vent holes in the booster centering rings.
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Old 12-08-2016, 04:27 PM
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burkefj burkefj is offline
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Stefan, I'd use CA to attach styrene to balsa fins, light and strong, if you are worried, you could slot the plastic pod and make a small tab on the fin and then use CA to lock it together.

Frank
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Old 12-08-2016, 05:26 PM
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bernomatic bernomatic is offline
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Stefan,

Both Tmacklin and I have threads at the Cantina forum regarding our conversions of the Renegade to a two stager: 24mm to 18mm.

Mack's renegade thread
My renegade thread

Both of us had real bad trouble with wind cocking and I would not suggest adding canards to this beast at all.

The original was not only underpowered for a 18 mm C6-0 (I haven't heard of anyone who has built this thing near the Estes weight, which was pushing it for max. liftoff weight of a C6-0, most I found were much heavier) and although I haven't flown my converted one yet, Mack reported he had some initial success with his, followed by more troubles.

As to why the revision, on top of the weight issue, the booster was known to come in ballistic posing those dangers. I added a streamer to the booster section to help allay that issue.

Good luck
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Old 12-08-2016, 10:20 PM
stefanj stefanj is offline
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Thanks for the links and ideas.

I've been thinking of how to add a streamer. I wish I'd read the thread before making the motor mount. Still might try to retrofit a holder for a streamer or small parachute.
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Old 12-09-2016, 02:28 AM
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bernomatic bernomatic is offline
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Here's one more link from right here on YORF (before I opened the Cantina) when I first built the Renegade.

Lot of discussions regarding ideas in that thread. Some good, some bad and some just , well silly.

Renegade build
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Old 12-09-2016, 01:08 PM
stefanj stefanj is offline
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Possible idea:

Open up the booster "fuel pods."

Install a kevlar shock cord and a small parachute, with a little shelf so the parachute sits right behind the nose coe.

Trim back the nose cone shoulder to maybe 1/4", with a really loose fit.

Hoped for behavior: On staging, the nose cones are spun or shake loose, letting the parachutes tumble out.

A tiny bit of weight in the nose cones would help here; when the booster deaccelerates on staging they pull forward.
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Old 12-13-2016, 10:38 PM
stefanj stefanj is offline
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I used CA to glue the pods to the fins. Ended up having to snap one off because I glued it on the wrong way; it was distressingly easy to do that.

Followed up by putting on epoxy fillets. Fingers crossed.

I wondering if staging gasses would be enough to pop a parachute out of a side pod, given vent holes.

I'm planning on finishing the side pods separately; I'll put a strip of 1/4" masking tape down the mating edges of the pods and the booster body. Strip those off to reveal naked body tube suitable for gluing together.
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Old 12-14-2016, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanj
I used CA to glue the pods to the fins. Ended up having to snap one off because I glued it on the wrong way; it was distressingly easy to do that.

Followed up by putting on epoxy fillets. Fingers crossed.

I wondering if staging gasses would be enough to pop a parachute out of a side pod, given vent holes.

I'm planning on finishing the side pods separately; I'll put a strip of 1/4" masking tape down the mating edges of the pods and the booster body. Strip those off to reveal naked body tube suitable for gluing together.


You could try a static firing after you built it, but then if it didn't work...
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Is Trump doing a good job? Feel free to let us know your opinion at Sagitta Cantina

We're looking for a few good Catos, please tell us about any you may have had. Survey of Anecdotal Malfunctioning Engines or S.A.M.E.
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