I've spent a while comparing one of the new release #2157 kits with one of the 1999 release.

Note that when I talk about a kit number, I decorate it with a # sign (a hash, a sharp, or octothorpe, if you will). If it doesn't have that, it is referring to a year.

1. Let's get this one out of the way. The tubes are exactly the same.

2. Injection molded parts. The new kit does not include the "extra parts" that the 1999 release had (and which were used on the #2001 version of the kit), i.e. ullage rockets and turbo pump tunnels for stages 2 and 3.

3. The vacuformed wraps in the 2010 release are EXCELLENT, and are the quality and sharpness of the original Centuri wraps. Much better than the 1999 release. This alone makes this a kit worth building.

4. Centering rings and such are laser cut in the new release, as you might expect. Material looks a little different but it is the same thickness (~0.02").

5. Decals on the new release are as well done as the 1999 release (which itself was much better than previous Estes Saturn V releases), but....
They goofed! They forgot to put a white background behind the position and fin markings.
Fortunately, they caught this, and printed separate decals for those markings, and include those decals along with a note telling the builder about the goof.
Another thing I notice is that the "S" in the "USA" seems to have a much thicker stroke than the other two letters. Scale people might want to check that out.

6. Tunnels. In the 1999 kit, they included one 7.5" half-round wood tunnel, and two 14" tunnels. I believe this was because those were the lengths required in the #2001 and the K-36 kit. The stock in the new release are all 9" lengths. The flat tunnel material for the third stage is a harder wood, not balsa.

7. Parachutes. Heavier plastic, printed in the style of the old Centuri Saturn V (which was printed to look sorta like the real Apollo parachutes).
Raw weight of old Estes 24" chute material -- 14 grams and about 1 mil thick, new material -- 18 grams at a little over 2 mils. Old material is much more flexible.
Old Estes chutes used harder carpet thread, new chutes use the softer Chinese thread.
Shock cords in the old kit; two 36" and one 24" elastic cloth; new kit has 36" vinyl rubber for all three.

8. Instructions. Front page is same text, but better organized.
1999 instructions apparently left out what to do with the reinforcing ring! 2010 instructions adds that to step 4, but be careful with this. The way it is described could lead to getting the reinforcing ring stuck in the wrong place. In step 12 part D, the removal of the extra material between engine shrouds has a better illustration. The old step 15 is separated into two steps, and all steps above that increase by one.

Here's a goof. Step 19 part C was left out! The text in the old step 18 part C is "Glue the launch lugs to the balsa strips. Check alignment before glue dries." I think they were going to change that from "balsa" to "wood", but then left it out entirely. Step 22 has an update for the 18" parachute's shock cord length.

Decal instructions are simplified, leaving out steps about special preparation of the decal areas.

Projected altitude rolled back from 175' to 150', and references to specific launch equipment changed. 3/16" rod on Porta-Pad II now recommended, even though the launch lugs are still 1/4".

and finally, the back page features the new Classic Series instead of the defunct North Coast kits.

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Roy
nar12605

Nice job Roy, we've been waiting for someone credible to do a side by side compasrison. Glad to hear it's a better kit than the 1999 version.

Randy
www.vernarockets.com

I should clarify that the wraps on the current kit are made from the same molds as the 1999 kit. The parts are just made better. Probably higher temperature and higher vacuum.

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Roy
nar12605

Hi Roy,

Good job on the comparo.

Question:

On number 2. ... The new kit does not include the "extra parts" ... i.e. ullage rockets and turbo pump tunnels for stages 2 and 3.

Are the "extra parts" unnecessary parts? Or are they extra scale parts not included in the original Estes SV kit?

Thanks.

rraeford

They are unnecessary for the "Centuri-style" build of the #2157 kit. They were the plastic parts that went on the paper wraps of the old K-36 and #2001. They were included in the 1999 version of #2157, probably just because they had the molds and it was cheap to do them as long as they were using the F1 bells and the Apollo Capsule from the K-36 kit. But this time around they must've just shot the F1 and Apollo parts.

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Roy
nar12605

They are parts that were needed for the 2001 kit with embossed cardstock wraps. The parts on the same tree as other parts that were used for both the 2001 and first 2157 release, so Estes didn't bother with making a new mold that eliminated the extra parts.

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I love sanding.

Yeah, just not sure if I like the "extra parts" incorporated into the wraps. They are a pain to acurately cut, they require a lip on the body tube to adhere, and they are a pain to mask. I think that I prefer the injection moulded tunnels, retro shrouds, etc. It was a lot easier to get a clean paint line.

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Gravity is a harsh mistress
SAM 002
NAR 91005
"The complexity of living is eminently favored to the simplicity of not."

I was able to do it when I was about 12 or 13 with the original Centuri kit. It just takes patience. Cut with a some room to spare, then sand them down to final fit. If a mistake is made, dissolve some scrap styrene in liquid plastic cement (I like Tenax 7R) to make a nice thick filler.

Looks like you did a fine job with the wraps in the pic.


.

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I love sanding.

Yep, I was 13 when I built mine, and had no problems whatsoever. I did over cut one of the engine shrouds, but didn't let it bother me. Masking was not a big deal, because I did it the way Centuri recommended, which was to paint the black parts *first*, then mask over the black areas and paint the whole rocket white.

Geez I wish I still had that rocket.

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Roy
nar12605

This does work. I painted my Apogee Saturn 1b that way.