He already differentiates what lines he sells in WM vs the hobby retail channel. He stated directly WM sales have significantly stimulated (triple) more diverse hobby line sales. His concerns about each niche motor somebody suggested seemed to be on three fronts.

The reliability of the motor itself
The likely sales volume
The suitability for a naive consumer like at WM or the lower end of hobby channel sales.

That said, I can see a way for Estes to offer a "premium line" like they did with Citation Series (which failed for channel reasons). If the hobby channel had a premium Estes line with a different pricing and discount model, it would self regulate people to some degree to carefully use the product.

The basic line really NEEDS A8-5, a pet issue for me, as well as a B4-6 for mass user programs.

The reason I am focused on D20 is the D is Estes top of the line motor with a minimum of shipping issues. If they offered an E casing high thrust D within the existing shipping mass constraints, they could charge a bit more and their larger rockets would finally have the right motor for reliably safe small field flights. That's what people want.

Jerry

I interpreted that as a joke answer. If he was real web savvy, he mighta used a winkie emoticon.

BTW, I agree about mission statements. I work for a European company. By the time such statements get translated from their original language into English, they're very awkward and stilted, and even dumber

Doug

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YORF member #11

Nice, really nice. Thanks Barry, and Scott and RD for taking the time to do this. IMO it shed some light on the real reasons behind some of the decisions Estes makes.

Hey, you asked for it!

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John Thro, NAR #84553 SR
I was too old when I started! Now I'll *never* become a BAR!

OK I will bite on this one:

"The reason I am focused on D20 is the D is Estes top of the line motor with a minimum of shipping issues."

Please define your statement. As I know, the SAME regulations that govern the shipping of 1/2A3-4T also govern the D12. Now unless there is some type of, "Model Airplane Parts" , clause in the D.O.T. 1.4,1.4S rules, your logic doesn't add up. I guess when you place a 'Model Airplane Parts' sticker on a box, you could ship crack cocaine without any difficulties ...

Personally, the only changes Estes could and should make is to bring back, long and short delay mini-motors, A-D boosters, and bulk packs for all their motor line. If buying $100 worth of motors at $75 saves me money over a year or two, I would do it in a heart beat!


When will U.S. Rockets start selling again? Will you bring back your coveted motors?

What we need is a Jerry Irvine Q&A session... now that be INTERESTING! Oh, and no taking the '5th'; you would have to answer all questions.

Bob

I think he keeps the mission statement a secret because Estes is a private company and is entitled to. The questions he chose to answer were consumer feedback stuff not business model stuff and financial stuff.

If there was a rule he had to address every question he would have simply declined.

He DID use an emoticon on the thong response. He did directly address the Kaplow issue in a way that was satisfying to me.

I think people who post either with a real name or post information making actual identification of the poster easy have ethics in what they post.

I also think the opposite is true.

Jerry

Hey Jerry, to put it in a laymans terms, are you talking about making a motor that takes the larger Estes Rockets(Maxi Alpha 3, 2.6" stuff) up to around 500-600 ft and not the 300 ft the D12-3 does now? I haven't been impressed with the E9 at all and haven't flown any, so reloads are basically where one has to go to get these types of rockets to safe altitudes. Am I reading your reponse correct?

Yes, exactly. In addition to the thrust limitations of the E9 due to the package size and ballistic limits of BP, it also falls outside the NA-0323 mass limit and falls under 1.4C or G or whatever, requiring hazmat shipping.

So given the overall tone Mr. Tunik offered, he is looking for "low hanging fruit" as a rational business man should, especially one considering a sale. The testing thing he repeatedly mentioned makes kits and parts an uphill battle, but motors do not suffer from that and also are the cash cow for the company, increasing the value of the company substantially if successful.

The A8-5 and B4-6 and A3-6T are no brainers. A D20 is outside the existing box both because it is a core burner and because Estes is very shy on the upper end of their power range.

But it makes very good business sense.

Jerry

Currently available:

D12: under 30 grams of propellant and USPS mailable. Good thrust level. Decent total-impulse.

E9: over 30 grams of propellant and NOT USPS mailable. Must be shipped the more expensive way (HAZMAT $$$$$$$$). Low thrust level. Semi-decent total-impulse. Will not safely lift heavy model rockets (those approaching 1 pound). Lighter rockets are no problem but they fly way high.


Wanted:

D20: under 30 grams of propellant so they can be USPS mailable. Even higher thrust level than the D12 so they can lift the models that are just a bit too heavy for the D12-3 (like the Maxi V-2). With the higher thrust level, they will fly SAFER since they leave the launch rod at a safe velocity (fast, not slow and lumbering). Since the total impulse is still a D, they will not fly any higher than a D12, so they are perfect for the one pound models on a small field.

All field sizes must still comply with the NAR MRSC, but it helps with the trees on the edge of the field.

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-Fred Shecter NAR 20117 (L2)
Southern California Rocket Association, NAR Section 430

Not having CPSC recalls?

terry dean

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"Old Rocketeer's don't die; they just go OOP".....unless you 3D print them.