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  #81  
Old 08-29-2017, 10:19 AM
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ghrocketman ghrocketman is offline
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By the way, the Ford engine analysis of the Boss 302, 351C/W/M, and 429/460 are also wayyy off.

The 429/460 Big Block was designed first, debuted in 1968, and was VERY similar to the Big-Block Chevy, but better due to having NON-siamesed intake ports (equidistant spaced) that allowed for better intake distribution. The Boss 429 had special "hemi" heads.

The 351C (cleveland) is a Mid-Block design with heads patterned after the 429/460 but reduced in size. VERY high RPM potential, especially with the 4V version heads.

The 351W (windsor) is a true small-block that is just a taller deck than the basic Ford 302. Heads very similar to the 302. Much lower potential than the 351C without Aftermarket big-$$$ heads.

The Boss 302 was a special 302 small block fitted with special 351-Cleveland heads. TERRIBLE low-end torque due to the big valve heads, but would spin up to 9000 rpm. LOUSY drag-racing engine, but good for road-racing tracks. Those things ran 15's in the 1/4 mile.

The 351M was a total TURD. It was based on the tall-deck Ford 400C but had a short stroke 351W crank. It was the worst Ford engine ever produced. Worse than the turd 390.
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  #82  
Old 08-29-2017, 10:34 AM
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Hey, you left out my favorite, the 427 SOHC motor that was banned by NASCAR in the mid 60's. It reminds me of the U-2, going form idea to hardware in about 3 months. That long timing chain was a weak link, but gear driven cams eventually made it into some of them.
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  #83  
Old 08-30-2017, 12:43 PM
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I left out the Ford SOHC 427 as it was not mentioned in any of the above posts. My postings were to 'correct' a LOT of mis-information about GM and Ford vehicles/engines. Half of my family is GM (like myself) and the other half are Ford. I like 'em both.

The Ford SOHC 427 was an awesome engine, but it was NEVER factory-fitted into any production vehicles.
Dealer-install Only.

Some Ford RACING-factory prepared cars were delivered with it installed, but this was not production-line.

Had way more potential than the Chrysler Hemi, but it never went very far....
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  #84  
Old 08-30-2017, 05:59 PM
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[QUOTE=ghrocketman]


>Some of you need to stick to what you actually know.

On this topic I pretty much do since I OWNED and RACED in or against most of what I listed previously at one time or another at Lassiter Mountain for several years just outside of B'ham. Then I grew up and had kids. I know from experience.

As for what comes from the factory specs, that's like politicians, barely worth the paper it's written on. I owned a total of 3 Pontiac Grandvilles all with a 455 and while they were all great cars there was a marked difference in performance. Quote all the specs you want, it's theory, not actual conditions. There actually are differences in a vehicle built on Monday, Wednesday or Friday. There shouldn't be but there is.

Many times a race winner is not determined by power alone but the driver and moment to moment conditions at the track, as well as the man tuning the machine. I've seen a different driver on the same team get into a car that just lost a race and win against the same car the next time out. I've done it myself. Why? The driver. Like anything else, know your machine, know the track and know your opponent.

The best racing compliment I ever got was when a regular rival came to me one night at the end and said, "I believe you could out run a Corvette in a ****ed VW bus!" He was exasperated to lose to a vehicle over and over that theoretically had less under the hood. Fact was, he really wasn't a great driver.

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  #85  
Old 08-30-2017, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghrocketman
Had way more potential than the Chrysler Hemi, but it never went very far....

That's because NASCAR banned it right from the start. They later changed their minds so they could keep the Chrysler hemi's, but they screwed Ford by giving them a big weight handicap, made them run it in a full size Galaxie, and limit it to a single tiny 4 barrel. Ford decided to just run it at the strip where it was very successful. If they had given it even footing with the Mopar, we would have seen it in some production cars. If we had seen it in production cars, it would probably have evolved into gear driven cams. I imagine that 7 ft cam chain made a pretty good racket. Gear driven cams might have given it a slight supercharger style whine and it sure would have taken the voodoo out of syncing the cams!
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  #86  
Old 08-31-2017, 04:33 PM
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I'm not just quoting factory specs, I talk/work with some that were around when those cars were developed (at least the GM ones).
The only way any Factory-Stock GTO (Judge, RAIV even) would beat a LS6 450hp 454 Chevelle is if the Chevelle driver gives the GTO a 1/2 sec advantage off the starting line in a drag. NOBODY focused is that bad.
All things even, the 1970 Chevelle SS 454 LS6 beats ALL the other similar GM cars (Lemans/GTO, Skylark/GS, Cutlass/442).
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