Ye Olde Rocket Forum

Go Back   Ye Olde Rocket Forum > BARCLONE > Designer's Studio
User Name
Password
Auctions Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts Search Mark Forums Read


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-14-2007, 01:34 AM
CPMcGraw's Avatar
CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
BARCLONE Rocketry
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 5,354
Default BARCLONE Designer's Studio 2008

Welcome to BARCLONE's Designer Studio, a thread dedicated to the development of new model rocket designs using classic construction methods, modern materials and software creation tools. All persons interested in designing models are encouraged to participate by posting their work here for others to study and critique, giving you a "peer review" by fellow model builders, flyers, designers, and even manufacturers. Generally speaking, the best review you can receive because it comes from people just like yourself!

BARCLONE was started with the ideal of "BARs Helping BARs", and that ideal is carried forward in this thread. Feel free to submit and post your work here, and listen to the advice offered. Because that's the point -- making the hobby more enjoyable not only for yourself, but for others as well.

The thread is now OPEN.
__________________
Craig McGraw

BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com
BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com
BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum

BARs helping BARs

SAM 0044
AMA 352635
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-16-2007, 10:39 PM
CPMcGraw's Avatar
CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
BARCLONE Rocketry
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 5,354
Exclamation New Plan -- Say Cheese

To inaugurate this thread with the first new plan we have the Say Cheese, which as the name implies, is a Camera Ship. It has been trimmed to reach 800' consistently on a D12-5, and is intended to fly the Aiptek Mini Pen like TBZEP uses in his modified Stormcaster.

The starting point for this design is a Screamin' Mimi, with the main tube cut into 12" and 6" lengths. To save weight, I used a simple 0.07" thick matteboard bulkhead and a tube coupler instead of a solid balsa bulkhead to join the payload body to the booster body.

Fins are standard 1/8" thick balsa.

A 48" x 3/16" rod is needed to reach a safe flight speed. The camera is listed as 45g, and I allowed 50g to account for the needed padding and support. With that much mass to move, even the reliable D12 can't push hard enough to get it off in less than 38".

Length: 25.75"
Diameter: 1.637" (BT-60)
Fin Span: 4.13"
Weight (with camera): 5 oz
Weight (without camera): 3.25 oz

If you fly the rocket without ballast, you will need to reef the parachute shrouds, as the Dv is above 25 FPS. The unballasted altitude is over 1030', or 330' better than with the camera. Use the 48" rod for unballasted flights as well.

Enjoy! And, if you build it before I do, you're obligated to share some in-flight videos!!!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  Say Cheese 2D.jpg
Views: 444
Size:  69.4 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  Say Cheese 3D.jpg
Views: 467
Size:  39.8 KB  
Attached Files
File Type: rkt Say Cheese.rkt (117.1 KB, 387 views)
__________________
Craig McGraw

BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com
BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com
BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum

BARs helping BARs

SAM 0044
AMA 352635
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-18-2007, 08:29 PM
CPMcGraw's Avatar
CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
BARCLONE Rocketry
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 5,354
Exclamation New Plan -- Sky Lance

Ahem...

Another reuse of an old name...

This is a 13mm cluster ship, probably Skill Level 3 for difficulty. It requires some very careful surgery on a BC-1032 (used as the tailcone) to fit the ST-5 tubes through without breaking the remaining balsa. Also, you will need to cut and trim the ST-5 tube where it overlaps the ST-10. The gaps must be sealed completely, as the deployment pressurization would escape otherwise. The ST-10 does not need to be slotted. Study the 2D and 3D images carefully to see what I'm trying to describe (poorly) in words.

Note the override in the mass of the tailcone, reduced about 30%. The final piece will likely be even less mass than this, considering what has to be removed to fit the tubes. This is critical to the simulation, as it has much higher Dv numbers if left "stock".

Length: 18.70"
Diameter: 1.04" (ST-10)
Fin Span: 5.44"
Weight: 2.13 oz

(2) 1/2 A3-2T......120'......Dv 18 FPS.......23" guide length required
(2) A3-4T..........383'......Dv 3-7 FPS......33" guide length required

Don't try this with the 1/4 A3 as it never gets above 35'. The A10-3T is also not recommended as the Dv is above 30 FPS.

Enjoy!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  Sky Lance 3D v2.jpg
Views: 453
Size:  45.0 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  Sky Lance 3D.jpg
Views: 469
Size:  40.0 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  Sky Lance 2D.jpg
Views: 407
Size:  67.8 KB  
Attached Files
File Type: rkt Sky Lance.rkt (210.5 KB, 372 views)
__________________
Craig McGraw

BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com
BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com
BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum

BARs helping BARs

SAM 0044
AMA 352635
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-19-2007, 12:54 AM
James Pierson James Pierson is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Washington State
Posts: 654
Lightbulb New Design: Solar Sailor III

Another recycled name here as well .

Here is another design I decided to call the Solar Sailor III after its two predecessors. This design will carry a 24 inch chute as well. The Dv's are a little high for the B4 and B6 so I reccomend flying this design on the C6-5.

Enjoy and Thanks Again, JP

James Pierson
NAR# 77907

Solar Sailor III (18mm)
Launch guide length: 48.0000 In

MOTOR.................MAX. ALTITUDE...........DEP. VELOCITY
B4-4..................205.06955 Ft............30.0259 ft/s
B6-4..................229.79921 Ft............25.3781 ft/s
C6-5..................640.47572 Ft............8.5704 ft/s
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  Solar Sailor III 2D Image.jpg
Views: 401
Size:  13.5 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  Solar Expolrer III 3D Image.JPG
Views: 549
Size:  13.8 KB  
Attached Files
File Type: rkt Solar Expolrer III.rkt (75.6 KB, 373 views)
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-21-2007, 11:28 PM
snaquin's Avatar
snaquin snaquin is offline
The_Ripper
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,440
Default New Plan -- Aiptek Mini PenCam 1.3 Rocket

A two-stage PenCam carrier .....

While waiting the five days for my two Aiptek Mini PenCam 1.3 cameras to arrive, I set out to build a quick and basic rocket to fly the camera in. Appropriately named "Aiptek Mini PenCam 1.3 Rocket" I found parts & fin cans from a couple of Estes Eliminator and OOP Longshot kits and some lengths of Semroc series 13 tubing.

The parts I selected stacked up to be an Estes Longshot only with Estes & some additional Semroc parts including a Mars Lander nose cone - a short length of Semroc ST-16, and the short Semroc BR-1316 transition. Although it wasn't my intention, after looking at it in RockSim I realized the capsule somewhat resembled the old Estes Camroc.

My main design goal for this project was quick assembly with the plastic fin cans and to get the camera in the air and launch it tomorrow, but the weather is flaring up again. I have since abandoned this design although someone else on the forum may have interest in it.

Length: 35.75"
Diameter: 1.64" (ST-16)
Fin Span: 5.716"
Weight (with camera): 8.21 oz
Weight (without camers): 5.76 oz

.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  DSCN0953.JPG
Views: 444
Size:  182.6 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  002 Aiptek Mini PenCam 1.3 Rocket.jpg
Views: 475
Size:  15.4 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  001 Aiptek Mini PenCam 1.3 Rocket.jpg
Views: 434
Size:  15.6 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  000 Aiptek Mini PenCam 1.3 Rocket.jpg
Views: 394
Size:  224.5 KB  
Attached Files
File Type: rkt Aiptek Mini PenCam 1.3 Rocket.rkt (81.1 KB, 358 views)
__________________
Steve Naquin
TRA# 677 L2
NAR# 85518 L2
SAM# 0052
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-22-2007, 07:52 AM
barone's Avatar
barone barone is offline
Master Modeler
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bartlett, TN
Posts: 3,041
Send a message via Yahoo to barone
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaquin
A two-stage PenCam carrier .....

While waiting the five days for my two Aiptek Mini PenCam 1.3 cameras to arrive, I set out to build a quick and basic rocket to fly the camera in. Appropriately named "Aiptek Mini PenCam 1.3 Rocket" I found parts & fin cans from a couple of Estes Eliminator and OOP Longshot kits and some lengths of Semroc series 13 tubing.

The parts I selected stacked up to be an Estes Longshot only with Estes & some additional Semroc parts including a Mars Lander nose cone - a short length of Semroc ST-16, and the short Semroc BR-1316 transition. Although it wasn't my intention, after looking at it in RockSim I realized the capsule somewhat resembled the old Estes Camroc.

My main design goal for this project was quick assembly with the plastic fin cans and to get the camera in the air and launch it tomorrow, but the weather is flaring up again. I have since abandoned this design although someone else on the forum may have interest in it.

Length: 35.75"
Diameter: 1.64" (ST-16)
Fin Span: 5.716"
Weight (with camera): 8.21 oz
Weight (without camers): 5.76 oz

.
Well heck yeah. With all the interest that has been generated in the pencam, these will work out great. Now where were those instructions for converting the pencam to rocket use.....
__________________
Don
NAR 53455
"Carpe Diem"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-22-2007, 11:32 AM
CPMcGraw's Avatar
CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
BARCLONE Rocketry
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 5,354
Exclamation New Plan -- Rogue Star

This is a bit tricky to describe, as once again RockSim gets in the way of doing what I want to do visually. Rogue Star is 18mm powered, and qualifies as an upper-end VR-Class bird on "C" power. There are some features that the 3D image just cannot show:

1. The pods use the SST: Shuttle-1 engine tube nose and tail cone set.
2. The four fins at the rear of the ST-13 tube really belong on the ST-5 pods, 2 each, angled outbound 45 degrees above and below the horizontal. Think Estes Titan-III stabilizing fins here.
3. The cockpit canopy is also from the SST: Shuttle-1 mothership.
4. The forward end of the ST-13 should be cut with a "French Curve" styling, such that the 'forward protrusion' occurs just behind the canopy. Think of a sine wave curve, but only using half of the curve. The 'hump' of the curve points forward, on the top side of the modle, and the straight edge falls to the bottom of the model.

Length: 23.30"
Diameter: 1.34" (ST-13)
Fin Span: 6.34"
Weight: 1.82 oz

A8-3......130'......Dv 21 FPS......requires 33"
B4-4......320'......Dv 19 FPS......requires 27"
B6-4......330'......Dv 14 FPS......requires 28"
C6-5......710'......Dv 20 FPS......requires 28"

A cutting pattern still needs to be drawn out for the ST-13. Obviously, there are other details that could be added by the builder, and a good decal set could go a long way toward trimming it out.

Enjoy!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  Rogue Star 2D.jpg
Views: 349
Size:  76.5 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  Rogue Star 3D.jpg
Views: 457
Size:  59.5 KB  
Attached Files
File Type: rkt Rogue Star.rkt (84.6 KB, 328 views)
__________________
Craig McGraw

BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com
BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com
BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum

BARs helping BARs

SAM 0044
AMA 352635
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-31-2007, 05:14 PM
CPMcGraw's Avatar
CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
BARCLONE Rocketry
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 5,354
Exclamation New Plan -- 24mm AstroVision Booster

Got one of these in working order today, after picking up a dud yesterday. I wanted to see if I could come up with a better booster that would give some real performance, or at least gain some substantial altitude, compared to the booster you get with the camera. This first version is a throw-together, what-if type of design, and I'm just guessing about the actual weight of the camera. I have not yet weighed the payload to get an accurate value, but I'm guessing no more than 2.5 oz. It really doesn't feel that heavy, maybe just a little more than a hollow plastic NC of the same size.

The camera shoulder loose-fits into a standard ST-13 tube, so that's where I'm starting from. Other variations of this theme are coming, so this is just a beginning baseline.

Length: 19.30"
Diameter: 1.34 (ST-13)
Fin Span: 4.84"
Weight: 3.31 oz (Camera estimated at 2.5 oz)

D12-5......1015'......Dv 26 FPS......48" x 3/16" Rod

Takes about 7.2 seconds to reach apogee, so the 12-18 seconds of record time should be enough to get a flight video.

Enjoy!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:  24mm AV Booster.jpg
Views: 429
Size:  37.4 KB  Click image for larger version

Name:  24mm AV Booster 2D.jpg
Views: 356
Size:  80.2 KB  
Attached Files
File Type: rkt 24mm AV Booster.rkt (37.1 KB, 367 views)
__________________
Craig McGraw

BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com
BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com
BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum

BARs helping BARs

SAM 0044
AMA 352635
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-31-2007, 11:32 PM
snaquin's Avatar
snaquin snaquin is offline
The_Ripper
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPMcGraw
Got one of these in working order today, after picking up a dud yesterday. I wanted to see if I could come up with a better booster that would give some real performance, or at least gain some substantial altitude, compared to the booster you get with the camera. This first version is a throw-together, what-if type of design, and I'm just guessing about the actual weight of the camera. I have not yet weighed the payload to get an accurate value, but I'm guessing no more than 2.5 oz. It really doesn't feel that heavy, maybe just a little more than a hollow plastic NC of the same size.

The camera shoulder loose-fits into a standard ST-13 tube, so that's where I'm starting from. Other variations of this theme are coming, so this is just a beginning baseline.

Length: 19.30"
Diameter: 1.34 (ST-13)
Fin Span: 4.84"
Weight: 3.31 oz (Camera estimated at 2.5 oz)

D12-5......1015'......Dv 26 FPS......48" x 3/16" Rod

Takes about 7.2 seconds to reach apogee, so the 12-18 seconds of record time should be enough to get a flight video.

Enjoy!


Craig,

I really like the booster and your choice of fin design. Looks great!

There is however a limitation that I haven't been able to figure out in RockSim that is throwing your margin of stability out. Margin without engines in RockSim shows 32.28 & I think it's probably closer to 6.43

RockSim is throwing it out somewhere in your Nose Cone Tip, Transition or Fin used for the camera shroud estimation.

To determine this I eliminated those three items from the design file and replaced those items with a single ogive BC-12561 Semroc cone, same as used on the SLS Javelin. I then added a single mass object to the true CG of the Semroc cone at 4.595" to bring the total rocket weight to 3.3085 to match your designs weight and I get a 6.43 margin without engines.

RockSim just doesn't estimate the CG accurately in this case (and I'm not sure why it doesn't).



.
__________________
Steve Naquin
TRA# 677 L2
NAR# 85518 L2
SAM# 0052
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-01-2007, 12:02 PM
CPMcGraw's Avatar
CPMcGraw CPMcGraw is offline
BARCLONE Rocketry
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mobile, Alabama
Posts: 5,354
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaquin
Craig,

I really like the booster and your choice of fin design. Looks great!

There is however a limitation that I haven't been able to figure out in RockSim that is throwing your margin of stability out. Margin without engines in RockSim shows 32.28 & I think it's probably closer to 6.43

RockSim is throwing it out somewhere in your Nose Cone Tip, Transition or Fin used for the camera shroud estimation.

To determine this I eliminated those three items from the design file and replaced those items with a single ogive BC-12561 Semroc cone, same as used on the SLS Javelin. I then added a single mass object to the true CG of the Semroc cone at 4.595" to bring the total rocket weight to 3.3085 to match your designs weight and I get a 6.43 margin without engines.

RockSim just doesn't estimate the CG accurately in this case (and I'm not sure why it doesn't).



.


Jay Goemmer emailed me with the heads-up. Change the setting on the first tab "Rocket Design Attributes" where it says "Static Margin Reference" from the default setting of "Nose Cone Base Diameter" to "Maximum Frontal Diameter". Everything else being equal, this should bring a loaded margin (with a D12-5) to about 5. The base diameter of the nose cone is actually larger in this case than the body tube, which is what RockSim normally defaults to. Empty margin comes to 8.

Jay put this info in another thread not too long ago, and I just forgot to make this change. I used his NC drawing method to produce the AV shape.
__________________
Craig McGraw

BARCLONE Rocketry -- http://barclone.rocketshoppe.com
BARCLONE Blogsite -- http://barclone.wordpress.com
BARCLONE Forum -- BARCLONE Forum

BARs helping BARs

SAM 0044
AMA 352635
Reply With Quote
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:29 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe 1998-2017