Gooney Birds
 

The Gooney Bird product line is something that still ticks me off 30+ years later.

Wayne Kellner and Mike Dorffler came up with a series of designs which were caricatures of actual missiles -- the Japanese "Baka" bomb, the V1, etc. The designs were "spot-on", and any halfway knowlegable rocketeer would have appreciated them. You didn't need a focus group, market survey, or the like to know that they would sell well.

However, Damon had foisted upon us a "Marketing Vice President" whose main claim to fame was that he was the sales manager at another company when the collector craze for their products took off. So said individual, who had no concept of what the model rocketeerw who were our market base thought, liked, or did, took the kit prototypes to a graphic artist who had done work for him in the past, but had no knowlege of model rocketry. With those qualifications, he had him create new decors and names for the models.

Sales were 1/10th or less of what the original designs would have posted, and the line was mercifully dropped within a short time.

Moral of the story -- the best designs for any product come from people who are passionate about the product, be it model rockets, cars, boats, bikes or cooking pots. If you don't have a passion for the product, do the world a favor and find something else to work on.

Bill

Not to further piss you off or anything, but........ ;)








There's a fine line between passionate and "Bill fed his meds to the bush again". :D

Bill

Right on, seems things haven't changed much there.

When a former marketing manager doesn't know what a engine block is used for (saying it's to prevent the engine block from being dented when cutting the engine hook slit) makes you wonder.

Having been in the hobby for 43 years, and having built loads of rockets, it makes me woder about "E".

I was a independent marketing consultant for "E" doing many things, besides writing instructions, attending trade shows and designing kits, then. moderator of the now dfunct Estes Forum, until the plug was pulled.

I had about 25 designs that didn't "make it" and if they were "approved" "E" could have benefitted from them.

My contribution were Deluxe Super Shot Screw Machine (not my name though) Converter, Screamin MiMi, Estes No2 Skywriter,Baby Bertha and 36bD Squared.

I had four more scheduled to come out this year as well Shooting Star, Jump Zone, Siren and Bell X-1.............all CANCELLED.

I'm not here to pick on anybody, just to state my opinion.

Thanks for you Estes history.
Ken

a/k/a RD

Bill,

Any chance you could give us a sketch of the cariacature rockets?

Yes, indeed! I'd enjoy building such a rocket (or two...)

Bill,

Thank you for the history of the SPEV. You also corrected the acronym meaning for me. I always thought it stood for "Spare" Parts Elimination Vehicle.

HA! I KNEW IT!!!!!!! :p

I mentioned somewhere recently that when I saw the Gooneybirds for the first time, it was the first indication to me that Estes (or rather, Damon) had decided that model rockets really were just toys. The kids in my rocket club treated them with ridicule.

Even so, there is an odd nostalgia for the Gooneybirds nowadays, and I'm not sure where it comes from, so your words will not be much comfort to a lot of people around here.

I think the "odd nostalgia" comes from the odd ball rocket aspect of the goonies.

In my opinion. rockets need not be all rocket all the time.

Variety is always good, it's up to the individual as to what they want.

What about kitbashing, looking back, there has been quite a few "different" rocket designs over the years.

And, in the case of the Goony's, what started out one way, was changed significantly.

The current 36 D Square was changed, my original didn't have "hockey stick" fins, and the nose cone was pointed.

Also, the original name was different from the current name, and, that is a whole different topic.

Heh, I heard it was more in line with a bra size originally. ;)

YES

My original name was Double D's, referring to two "D" motors, not in refewrence to anything else, but, from what I heard, they "E" came up with some "hot" paint schemes and parachutes.

It's like the Scew Machine, my original name was Kwick Knect, but they came up with the name, which I complained about, another story.

Out of all my designs that "made it" Baby Bertha was the only one that I named !!!!!

Gooney Birds
 

1) Bill Eichelberger's Gooneybird models look great--definitely first rate craftsmanship. Seeing them eases the pain. I may skip my meds today.

2) As for the original sketches, photos, etc., Wayne Kellner may have some of that stuff if anybody knows how to contact him.

Bill,

Thank you for taking the time to provide the history of the Goonybirds.

I'm sorry if remembering that episode caused you a headache.

I'd would enjoy hearing about the development of the Interceptor (K-50) and the history behind the Citation line of products when you have a moment.

I hope information like Bill is providing can be archived and saved for the future. :)

Bob

I, too, would be curious to know what the originals were supposed to look like. Did the fin planform change too or are the goonies just repaints/redecorations of the original caricatures? If the latter, do you remember what goony came from what original?

Greg

SWAG: The Cloud Hopper looks like the Baka, and the Missile Toe the V1. (/SWAG)

Doug

The Galactic Guppy looks a little V-2'ish...

Maybe the Zoom Broom was the Gee-Bee Racer?

Guys, you're overthinking this.
Cloudhopper = Bunny
Sky Shriek = Tongue
Star Snoop = Eyeball
Missile Toe = Sore toe
Zoom Broom = Witches hotrod
Galaxy Guppy = Fishhead
:cool: :D :rolleyes:

Yes! ALL BOW TO THE GOONY MASTER!!! :D

:cool:

My mother had one of those hair dryers. I used to beg to put it on in the winter when I was freezing my butt off. We had wood heat so one area was nice and warm and the rest of the house was cold.

It's not a hair dryer. It's a Halloween costume. I went as Orville Redenbacher's love child. :D :eek:

Johnny Carson returns as Karnack............

LOL...It hasn't been used in decades, but my mother still has her Orville Redenbacher Halloween costume. :D

I'm impressed -- You're doing better at making the correlations than I would. In answer to somebody's question, no, the fins, nose cones, etc. were not changed in the "improvement process. Where's Kellner when you need him?
Bill

It's interesting that in the 1973 and 1974 Estes catalogs, the Goonybird pages (http://www.ninfinger.org/~sven/rock...73/73est16.html) show the Missile Toe with the tube fin down and one of the "wing" fins up. This blurs its resemblence to a V-1 which really fights with the original concept of missile caricatures. It kinda underlines the disconnect between the marketing folks and the idea originators that you've expressed, BIll. It would have been cool to have a couple of decal sets for each design (caricature and goony) but I guess it wasn't to be.

Dwayne Surdu-Miller

The subject of bringing back the Goonies was brought up a year ago and quickly dropped !!!!!!!

Hey that's the one that pulled me back into the hobby. I'm walking thru Michaels looking for a gift for my lovely wife when I run across the Skywriter. I'm thinking, "That's pretty cool and not too expensive, I wonder if it's as fun as it was when I was a kid."

4 months, a bunch of kits and more money than I care to think about later, here I am.

So I guess a big thanks is called for here. :D

Welcome bacj into the hobby. The Skywriter is very popular with the kids in school. Also as popular is the Baby Bertha, with the Skywriter, it's a quick build, and with the Baby Bertha, it's balsa fins, larger in diameter and fun to build and fly.

OK then, why doesn't someone make decal sets that are their interpretation of the original caricatures? I'm presuming that there are no pictures in existence of the original designs?

My guess would be that because of the time frame vintage prints and other info is long gone unless someone has it in their private collection.

So many documents are "missing".

It seems that the things we expect to have value in the future don't, and those things we scorn turn out to have lasting value. FWIW --I have copies of the instruction sheets for the 4 original Estes Land Rocket cold power kits. Talk about bad timing! The completion of development work just happened to coincide with the news that Freon was destroying the Ozone Layer, and the indiscriminate release of Freon would henceforth be illegal. Nowadays I'd expect the company to sue the Federal Government for compensation for the loss of value in the conpany's products. Back then we just took our lumps and moved on to the next project.

Bill

Everyone,

I thought this is such a great thread with infos I decided to add the "designers" to my list of rockets.

So, please keep them names coming so I can add them to my database :)

Leo

Have you set up the list yet?

RD

Yes RD.

Did it yesterday.

Just visit my web site under "Rockets" and click on a manufacturer.

e.g. here Estes Industries

Larry Renger designed the Astro-Blaster R/C Glider.

Bob

Thanks Bob.

It has been added.

List looks awesome Leo! :)

Thanks Jon.

I'll be curious to see if I actualy will manage to have all the names for each of my kits.

Gooneybird Originals
 

A good friend of mine slipped the attached sketches under my door. These are indeed the original sketches by Mike Dorffler and Wayne Kellner. I'm looking forward to seeing your reactions!

HAHA, they are great and would be perfect to "clone" :)