White Glue Users

[scigs30]

I have always used Elmers white glue with great results but then they changed the forumla and not it is junk. Titebond origianl wood glue is great but I don't like the yellow staining it leaves behind especially on my freeflight airplanes. Today I was at Lowe's and I found a new Titebond glue called translucent wood glue. It is exactly the same forumla as Titebond Wood glue but it dries clear.
Titebond's Translucent Wood Glue and No-Run, No-Drip Wood Glue
Titebond debuted two brand new glues at AWFS® Fair 2011: Translucent Wood Glue and No-Run, No-Drip Wood Glue. Here are the 2 new glues from Titebond.

"Titebond Translucent Wood Glue has all the characteristics of Titebond Original Wood Glue but leaves virtually invisible glue lines when dry. In other words, woodworkers won’t be able to see what makes Franklin International’s newest Titebond wood glue so unique. Besides the transparent glue lines, Titebond Translucent Wood Glue also provides excellent bond strength, a four-to-six-minute working time and shorter clamp time. Once cured, Titebond Translucent offers higher heat resistance than typical PVA glues for more durable bonds over time and better sanding characteristics. And, because the glue is non-toxic, it’s a safe glue to use when introducing children to woodworking.

Titebond's No-Run, No-Drip Wood Glue is the highest viscosity PVA wood glue on the market. It stays right where it’s put, for easy, neat gluing of interior trim carpentry or small trim pieces on cabinets and furniture. It has a faster dry time then Titebond's Molding and Trim Glue, yet still provides three to five minutes of open time for repositioning. Its strong initial tack holds trim in place. "

[stefanj]

My quibble with yellow glue (alphetic resin): The shrink factor. It's hard to get gap-free fillets, and it leaves a ring on the outside of body tubes when used with engine mounts.

I use white glue for those specific purposes. I'd welcome alternatives.

[jeffyjeep]

I use epoxy almost exclusively for rings and for fillets. It doesn't shrink that I know of, and if you use a medium cure time epoxy for internal rings and couplers, it has a sort of "lube" effect.

[chrism]

I like to use Gorilla Glue brand white wood glue. It dries clear and sands easily. It has sufficient tack that allows you to make minor adjustment to fins before drying.

[scigs30]

Gorilla white glue? The only wood glue I have seen dries brown/tan. I saw a white glue made by Gorilla, but the directions stated both surfaces had to be moist.

[chrism]

Gorilla white glue? The only wood glue I have seen dries brown/tan. I saw a white glue made by Gorilla, but the directions stated both surfaces had to be moist.

The stuff I'm refering too can be found here: http://www.gorillaglue.com/glues/woodglue/index.aspx

I bought mine at Wal-Mart

[luke strawwalker]

I have always used Elmers white glue with great results but then they changed the forumla and not it is junk. Titebond origianl wood glue is great but I don't like the yellow staining it leaves behind especially on my freeflight airplanes. Today I was at Lowe's and I found a new Titebond glue called translucent wood glue. It is exactly the same forumla as Titebond Wood glue but it dries clear.
Titebond's Translucent Wood Glue and No-Run, No-Drip Wood Glue
Titebond debuted two brand new glues at AWFS® Fair 2011: Translucent Wood Glue and No-Run, No-Drip Wood Glue. Here are the 2 new glues from Titebond.

"Titebond Translucent Wood Glue has all the characteristics of Titebond Original Wood Glue but leaves virtually invisible glue lines when dry. In other words, woodworkers won’t be able to see what makes Franklin International’s newest Titebond wood glue so unique. Besides the transparent glue lines, Titebond Translucent Wood Glue also provides excellent bond strength, a four-to-six-minute working time and shorter clamp time. Once cured, Titebond Translucent offers higher heat resistance than typical PVA glues for more durable bonds over time and better sanding characteristics. And, because the glue is non-toxic, it’s a safe glue to use when introducing children to woodworking.

Titebond's No-Run, No-Drip Wood Glue is the highest viscosity PVA wood glue on the market. It stays right where it’s put, for easy, neat gluing of interior trim carpentry or small trim pieces on cabinets and furniture. It has a faster dry time then Titebond's Molding and Trim Glue, yet still provides three to five minutes of open time for repositioning. Its strong initial tack holds trim in place. "

SO does the No-Run, No-Drip replace the the TMTG, or is it an alternative product offered along side TMTG?? I REALLY like TMTG for fillets and such-- no runs, no drips, and virtually no detectable shrinkage as it dries. Virtually no pinholes and such as it dries and when dry it's almost completely clear.

As for the Transparent wood glue, have you used it?? Is it pretty much a drop-in replacement for white glue or does it have the shrink issues of regular yellow wood glues?? (I HATE that "sucked in ring" around the body tube you get from using yellow wood glue to install motor mounts-- so while I sometimes use yellow wood glue to mount the centering rings to the motor tube, I always use white glue to install the motor mount/rings inside the main body tube to eliminate that shrinkage induced ring. Plus, white glue has a MUCH longer work time than yellow glue, preventing "lockup" halfway through the installation process... It looks pretty interesting.

I know I've been very impressed with Titebond products. I've switched to Titebond II for all my yellow glue work over Elmer's, and I've used the TMTG and been quite impressed with it for fillets. If they make a good white glue with the same general properties as white glue (good working time and little/no shrinkage) I'll use it in a minute.

Later! OL JR :)

[dlazarus6660]

TMTG=? T=? M=? T=? G=Glue?

[Bill]

TMTG=? T=? M=? T=? G=Glue?


Titebond Molding and Trim Glue


Bill

[luke strawwalker]

TMTG=? T=? M=? T=? G=Glue?

Sorry... thought it'd be obvious considering the topic...

Titebond Moulding and Trim Glue... TMTG...

later! OL JR :)

[Bill]

SO does the No-Run, No-Drip replace the the TMTG, or is it an alternative product offered along side TMTG??


The label looks like it is going to be a replacement instead of a companion.


I hope this does not foreshadow the elmerization of Titebond, with numerous "improvements" and product name changes like we saw with FnF over the years.


Bill

[blackshire]

The label looks like it is going to be a replacement instead of a companion.


I hope this does not foreshadow the elmerization of Titebond, with numerous "improvements" and product name changes like we saw with FnF over the years.


BillI wonder if there are any other brands (perhaps re-labeled foreign-made glues sold in the US) that have the characteristics we desire? For example, in a nation like Germany, where doing quality woodwork is almost a religion, there must be domestic wood glue manufacturers who cater to the craftsmen's demands for excellent adhesives (Leo?). If so, smaller model rocket companies like FlisKits or Semroc could order relatively small batches of such top-notch glues and sell them as lucrative "side products."

[JRThro]

What about store brand or generic white glues that are meant to compete with Elmer's Glue-All? Are they still the "old" formula?

I don't actually know what's changed in Elmer's, but maybe these other Brand X glues have not changed. (It's been a while since I worked on a rocket, or bought new glue.)

[blackshire]

What about store brand or generic white glues that are meant to compete with Elmer's Glue-All? Are they still the "old" formula?There is an "off-brand" of white glue whose name I can't remember (but it is common--the bottle has a different-style cap that's molded in yellow plastic) that I've had good results with.I don't actually know what's changed in Elmer's, but maybe these other Brand X glues have not changed. (It's been a while since I worked on a rocket, or bought new glue.)I think that's possible. Also, Aleene's makes both a good "tacky" white glue (it is called "Aleene's Tacky") and a good aliphatic resin (yellow) wood glue. (Their "yellow" wood glue is actually tan because it contains a dye to more closely match the color of wood.) Both are available at Michael's Crafts stores.

[chrism]

Is there a such a thing as the perfect glue? Whether a modeler uses white glue, wood glue expoxy or CA, there are pros and cons of each. I feel that white or wood glue is sufficent for LPR. I have seen fins fall off on recovery no matter what type of glue is used. Just like all other modeling products, each one has their own way to do things and preferences.

[gpoehlein]

What about store brand or generic white glues that are meant to compete with Elmer's Glue-All? Are they still the "old" formula?

I don't actually know what's changed in Elmer's, but maybe these other Brand X glues have not changed. (It's been a while since I worked on a rocket, or bought new glue.)

My experience is that most generic white glues tend to be more like the "School Glue" than Glue All.

I picked up a bottle of Aleene's "Fast Grab" Tacky Glue yesterday. I haven't tried it yet, but when I do, I let you guys know how it works.

Greg

[AcroRay]

Well, I find Elmer's current mainstream white formula to be thin and runny in spite of its 'non-running' self-descrption. The wood glue gets a bit thick for me, and requires extra sanding. The Titebond stuff I got which is popular for fillets wound-up with little tiny bubbles texturing it on one of my builds, like there was degassing going on under it, but the undercoat was days dry. :confused: I'm too anal-retentive a builder to use it now...

Overall, the recently-discontinued traditional Elmers worked best for me in all application. Luckily, my wife found some at a local discounter, so we should have enough for a couple of years at least.

[Bluegrass Rocket]

I thought I would just throw this out there, I highly recommend "Amazing Ecoglue". I have been using this glue lately and I have had really good results. It seems like it is much easier to make fillets with, which I have always had trouble with. I looked around the net and it seems they might be re-branding this to add the word "Craft" to the labeling.

[blackshire]

I thought I would just throw this out there, I highly recommend "Amazing Ecoglue". I have been using this glue lately and I have had really good results. It seems like it is much easier to make fillets with, which I have always had trouble with. I looked around the net and it seems they might be re-branding this to add the word "Craft" to the labeling.What is its chemistry (PVA [Poly-Vinyl Acetate, i.e. "white glue"], aliphatic resin ["yellow wood glue"], polyurethane resin [I believe the black "Gorilla Glue" is this type], etc.)?

[blackshire]

Another thought: Has anyone here tried the new Testors "safe" tube-type cement for plastic models (it comes in a pale blue tube) for balsa/balsa, balsa/paper, and paper/paper joints? I've been told that it's lousy for bonding styrene and ABS plastics (those found in plastic model kits), but good for bonding porous materials such as balsa wood and paper (and without the toxic fumes and flammability [or at least less of the latter] of Testors cement for wood models [Testors' "model airplane glue"]).

[Mark II]

Titebond has always had a white glue in its product line. I have a bottle with an orange-background label that says, "Titebond All Purpose White Glue." It goes on to state that it is "Ideal for Home, Shop & Crafts." It appears to be standard PVA white glue. I have had the bottle for several years.

http://www.renaissancefasteners.com/pc/catalog/allpurposewhitetb_1156_general.gif

[Bluegrass Rocket]

Here are some links to the Amazing Ecoglue. The technical data sheet says that it is a "self-cross linking polyvinyl acetate wood adhesive".

Website: http://www.eclecticproducts.com/ecoglue.htm

Technical Data Sheet: http://www.eclecticproducts.com/_tds/eg_tds.pdf

[dyaugo]

Titebond Molding and Trim Glue


Bill

I use Titebond II for fin applications and also for fillets on LPR and MPR and then I apply Titebond Molding and Trim over the fillet, but then again I might use epoxy clay for fillets...it just depends. I also mask off the fillet area. I know I can easily wipe the excess glue, but it does work well with tape and looks nice afterward. Seems to work well for me...as far gluing engines mounts in the airframes and tube couplers etc I use 15 BSI epoxy. It allows plenty of time to move the piece into place.

I used wood glue but, it locks up tight and hardly any work time...has anyone had this problem when installing the engine mounts. I would rather use wood glue because I know it has a strong bond with wood and paper, but it seems just as I'm sliding the mount it sets up on me.

I still have plenty of wood glue left so I won't be buying more anytime soon...I also picked up some Elmers Glue All? Not sure...have to look, but haven't spent much time using it.

[Doug Sams]

I used wood glue but, it locks up tight and hardly any work time...has anyone had this problem when installing the engine mounts?This is a well known issue with wood glue. The paper swells resulting in motor mounts and couplers grabbing before they are in position. While I abhor the overuse of epoxy, this is one place where it's well suited. A couple dime-sized drops of resin and hardener mix up quickly and allow plenty of working time while installing motor mounts and couplers. I prefer this over medium CA and other adhesives. (But otherwise, I use mostly wood glue from 1/4A to J power.)

Doug

.

[dyaugo]

This is a well known issue with wood glue. The paper swells resulting in motor mounts and couplers grabbing before they are in position. While I abhor the overuse of epoxy, this is one place where it's well suited. A couple dime-sized drops of resin and hardener mix up quickly and allow plenty of working time while installing motor mounts and couplers. I prefer this over medium CA and other adhesives. (But otherwise, I use mostly wood glue from 1/4A to J power.)

Doug

.

I agree 100% with you. Wood glue is can be used on just about any size rocket within "REASON" I use milled fiberglass with my mixture to thicken it up and provide extra strength.

[foamy]

...I also picked up some Elmers Glue All? Not sure...have to look, but haven't spent much time using it.

I've been using it (Elmer's Glue All) for motor mounts and couplers. I don't like the way wood glue sucks a ring in a body tube and ever since it grabbed a motor mount, well, I was very dismayed. Elmer's (or Tite Bond, take your pick) still, is what I put fins on with.

[CPMcGraw]

Went to Lowes today and picked up a bottle of the Translucent WG. Think I'll try it out with a SEMROC Launch Missile that's been crying its eyes out for three years... :o

[Mark II]

I keep a whole basketful of different adhesives and glues on hand so that I can use the best product for the job. (And I do use them all.) I am eager to check out this new transparent wood glue because I am always interested in new products from Franklin/Titebond.

Gorilla Wood Glue, which I also have, is an excellent product that is nearly, but not totally, colorless when dry. It has a slight brownish tint. Gorilla's white glue is polyurethane-based, like their most well-known adhesive, but is almost colorless. It is not transparent but has a frosted color when it is dry. I guess the idea is that in a joint that is visible, it is less ghastly-looking than the normal P.U. glue. It might not be quite as strong though. I happen to really like Elmer's ProBond polyurethane glue. While it does produce a foamy seam, the foam is more even, with smaller bubbles, so that it doesn't look quite as shattered as the foam produced by the Gorilla product. The foam is also a light tan or straw color, which is less visually offensive.

Off-topic, but while I'm on the subject of Gorilla I want to give a thumb's up to Gorilla super glue, or CA. It is an excellent medium viscosity (gap-filling) cyanoacrilate glue that contains rubber for improved shock tolerance and it comes in what might be the very best CA bottle on the market. The cap is threaded and is air-tight, and it contains a pin inside that fits into the nozzle when the cap is screwed down. This keeps the nozzle open and clear and it also prevents dried glue from building up around the outside of the nozzle.

I have also been very pleased with the performance of Gorilla duct tape. It is by a huge margin the strongest and toughest duct tape that I have ever used. When you slap it down on something, you had better make sure that you get it in the right place, because after that, pal, it ain't going anywhere.

[luke strawwalker]

I'm like you Mark-- I have a box full of glues at my disposal... I mostly use Elmer's Glue-All for white glue stuff (paper>paper, paper>wood, tube couplers, and motor mounts into the main body tube). I like Titebond II yellow wood glue for everything else (wood>paper [fins], centering rings to motor tubes [AR has higher heat resistance than PVA] and of course wood>wood). I use TMTG for fin fillets (I've only had it bubble on me ONCE, and that was because I was laying it on too thick over a gap with air behind it (gluing on SRB's) and had to go back and refill the holes). I usually use it as a 'finish fillet' after gluing the fins on with Titebond II and doing a thin yellow glue fillet with a little extra TBII and whatever gets squeezed out of the double-glue joints... TMTG works VERY well when used over the top of TBII, even if there are pinholes in the TBII.

I have some pink bottle ultra-thin CA from Hobby Lobby that I use mainly to harden balsa cones/transitions and paper cones/transitions... other than that I don't really use it structurally. I have a bottle of yellow medium CA from HL for structural stuff, but I don't really use it either-- more of an 'emergency' type stuff. Various plastic and rubber cements but virtually NEVER use them...

Here's a question for yall...

I got some Plastruct half-rounds today for the cable tunnels on my scratchbuilt BT-80 Saturn V... what's the best way of bonding styrene onto glassine tube/paper wraps??

TIA! OL JR :)

[John Brohm]

...



Here's a question for yall...

I got some Plastruct half-rounds today for the cable tunnels on my scratchbuilt BT-80 Saturn V... what's the best way of bonding styrene onto glassine tube/paper wraps??

TIA! OL JR :)

Contact cement.

[blackshire]

Here are some links to the Amazing Ecoglue. The technical data sheet says that it is a "self-cross linking polyvinyl acetate wood adhesive".

Website: http://www.eclecticproducts.com/ecoglue.htm

Technical Data Sheet: http://www.eclecticproducts.com/_tds/eg_tds.pdfInteresting...thank you for posting these links. Although I do tend to look at "eco" and "Earth friendly" products with a jaundiced eye (regarding both their quality and where at least some of the money they make in sales goes--I would hate to discover that I had unknowingly supported ELF, PETA, or some similar radical environmentalist group), I am intrigued with some of this PVA (white) glue's characteristics. The above-linked Technical Data Sheet says that the Amazing EcoGlue Adhesive is 100% water-resistant once cured, that it can be painted (some cured white glues don't "hold" paint well), and that it is abrasion-resistant (which suggests that it sands well when cured).

[chrism]

I keep a whole basketful of different adhesives and glues on hand so that I can use the best product for the job. (And I do use them all.) I am eager to check out this new transparent wood glue because I am always interested in new products from Franklin/Titebond.

Gorilla Wood Glue, which I also have, is an excellent product that is nearly, but not totally, colorless when dry. It has a slight brownish tint. Gorilla's white glue is polyurethane-based, like their most well-known adhesive, but is almost colorless. It is not transparent but has a frosted color when it is dry. I guess the idea is that in a joint that is visible, it is less ghastly-looking than the normal P.U. glue. It might not be quite as strong though. I happen to really like Elmer's ProBond polyurethane glue. While it does produce a foamy seam, the foam is more even, with smaller bubbles, so that it doesn't look quite as shattered as the foam produced by the Gorilla product. The foam is also a light tan or straw color, which is less visually offensive.

Off-topic, but while I'm on the subject of Gorilla I want to give a thumb's up to Gorilla super glue, or CA. It is an excellent medium viscosity (gap-filling) cyanoacrilate glue that contains rubber for improved shock tolerance and it comes in what might be the very best CA bottle on the market. The cap is threaded and is air-tight, and it contains a pin inside that fits into the nozzle when the cap is screwed down. This keeps the nozzle open and clear and it also prevents dried glue from building up around the outside of the nozzle.

I have also been very pleased with the performance of Gorilla duct tape. It is by a huge margin the strongest and toughest duct tape that I have ever used. When you slap it down on something, you had better make sure that you get it in the right place, because after that, pal, it ain't going anywhere.
Mark, I use a small piece of Gorilla Duct Tape to attach a streamer to the shock cord.

[gpoehlein]

Well, gee, gang - anyone ever try making casein glue from milk and using that for building rockets? According to one source I found, Elmer's white glue was still casein glue up until about 20 years ago, so that would have been the stuff I would have used when I first built rockets back in the 70s. A couple of the sites that told how to make it said it would spoil pretty quickly at room temperature without any preservative, so I wonder if Alum would work for that (we used to use that when making homemade Play Dough).

Might be worth and experiment... ;)

Greg

[blackshire]

Well, gee, gang - anyone ever try making casein glue from milk and using that for building rockets? According to one source I found, Elmer's white glue was still casein glue up until about 20 years ago, so that would have been the stuff I would have used when I first built rockets back in the 70s. A couple of the sites that told how to make it said it would spoil pretty quickly at room temperature without any preservative, so I wonder if Alum would work for that (we used to use that when making homemade Play Dough).

Might be worth and experiment... ;)

GregHere is a powdered white glue recipe (see: http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~wndrwrks/modules/Making%20White%20Glue.pdf ). Also, I have a few tissue paper hot air balloon kits that were made by a (now-defunct, I believe) English company called IFO (Identified Flying Objects). Each kit contains a small plastic bag of "powdered paste" (as it is referred to in the instructions), but I wouldn't be surprised if it is powdered white glue (especially since IFO was literally a one-man outfit that he ran out of his house).

[Bill]

and that it is abrasion-resistant (which suggests that it sands well when cured).


I would think that "abrasion-resistant" means that it does not sand well, that is, it does not show much effect when moving a piece of sandpaper or any other kind of abrasive against it...


Bill

[blackshire]

I would think that "abrasion-resistant" means that it does not sand well, that is, it does not show much effect when moving a piece of sandpaper or any other kind of abrasive against it...


BillThat could be, but I was thinking in terms of the surface of the cured glue not tearing away in large particles or "fibers" if it was sanded. The polyurethane casting resins such as Alumilite and Por-A-Kast are promoted as being able to be "sanded, drilled, stained, and painted" when cured. Having worked with them, I know that they require some effort to sand (they are abrasion-resistant), but they sand away in a fine powder (which allows subtle re-shaping of cured castings). That is what I think the EcoGlue folks mean regarding their glue (although I freely admit that they may mean something else).

[chrism]

Has anyone ever tried Liquid Nails?

[ghrocketman]

Liquid Nails ????
C'mon noww....that goopy stuff would make an unworkable mess.

[chrism]

Liquid Nails ????
C'mon noww....that goopy stuff would make an unworkable mess.
Ha Ha...I was just teasing!

[ghrocketman]

I was HOPING.
The only things worse than that for rocket construction would be Rubber Cement, hot-melt "glue", Seal-All, or Shoe "Goo".

[gpoehlein]

I was HOPING.
The only things worse than that for rocket construction would be Rubber Cement, hot-melt "glue", Seal-All, or Shoe "Goo".

Hey now - Jim Flis recommends hot melt glue for building his beaded foam cup rockets - just gotta use the appropriate adhesive for the right purpose! :p

Greg

[jharding58]

There are two formulations of Elmer's Glue All - discounting the School Glue which is water soluble. On the rear of the package is the required country of origin information. The formula noted as USA is the closest you will find to the original formula. The product from China has a higher shrink rate and will cause more of a waist or neck on the BT at the glue joint with the centering ring or other internal structure.

Back in November when my angst ridden travails with Elmer's began I was told by the vendor that the formulations from the two sources were identical and that stringent quality control ensured equality of product function. So, I did what any person would do and documented two equal sized drops of product on the same material and left them in the same environment. The image below (11/16/10) shows how the two formulations differ. The product on the left is product labeled as USA manufacture, while that on the right is from China.

The initial concerns were one of viscosity. The US product seems to be much more viscous and that is demonstrated in the relatively smaller shrinkage on the substrate. The product from China spreads more quickly. Also the sheen on the Chinese product is much higher which would tend to indicate that the particulate is much finer (or less) when compared to the US brand. What I have found from use is that while the China product will initially form a fillet much more easily, it also tends to clump more rapidly in the dispenser - that is the next dispense of glue will contain a small clump of material coming through the hole.

[luke strawwalker]

Contact cement.

Thanks... I appreciate it! OL JR :)

[Mark II]

I was HOPING.
The only things worse than that for rocket construction would be Rubber Cement, hot-melt "glue", Seal-All, or Shoe "Goo".Mucilage? Gum arabic?

By the way, last week at the hardware store I saw a product called JB WoodWeld wood epoxy (http://www.amazon.com/J-B-Weld-8251-WoodWeld-Adhesive/dp/B004NB3OMS), made by our friend, the JB Weld company. Has anyone tried this stuff out?


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RiRaVhB3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[jharding58]

It seems that there is now an Elmer's Glue All in new packaging! The applicator is a flat blade sealed spout as opposed to a pin seal. Also seems to be marked with "Interior"

[Mark II]

It seems that there is now an Elmer's Glue All in new packaging! The applicator is a flat blade sealed spout as opposed to a pin seal. Also seems to be marked with "Interior"Yup, and it's the "MADE IN USA" version, too. I just picked up a bottle of it yesterday. It was the first bottle of Elmer's Glue-All that I had bought since the waning days of the Clinton administration! :chuckle:

[gpoehlein]

Yup, and it's the "MADE IN USA" version, too. I just picked up a bottle of it yesterday. It was the first bottle of Elmer's Glue-All that I had bought since the waning days of the Clinton administration! :chuckle:

But does it grab like the old stuff did? How's it compare to the new stuff and the old stuff?

[Ltvscout]

I was HOPING.
The only things worse than that for rocket construction would be Rubber Cement, hot-melt "glue", Seal-All, or Shoe "Goo".
Hot melt glue is used in assembling FlisKits Decaffeinator.

[Ltvscout]

Hey now - Jim Flis recommends hot melt glue for building his beaded foam cup rockets - just gotta use the appropriate adhesive for the right purpose! :p

You beat me to it, Greg!

[sandman]

Hot melt glue is used in assembling FlisKits Decaffeinator.

The foaming Gorilla glue works great on foam too. (Foam sticks to foam... go figure.)

A little messy since it drys yellow (excuse me "cures") but it really sticks to foam.

[ghrocketman]

I tend to discount anything made out of a stack of foam cups.
For any REAL rocket (not oddroc) made out of NORMAL rocketry materials, I stand by my comment about hot melt glue. It IS GARBAGE.
For the one out of a THOUSAND+ available kits on the market, maybe hot melt glue is acceptable.
How 'bout some of that "Liquid Hyde Glue" that has a stink any prankster would be proud to unleash ?

[scigs30]

A representative from Franklin/Titebond returned my call today and was able to discuss the new white glues. The new Translucent Glue is new and the formula is different from the previous all purpose white Glue Titebond used to make. This is the same PVA as Titebond Original except the yellow additive is not added. I thought Yellow glue is Aliphatic, what ever that means. He told me that is the name given to yellow glue but it is a PVA with yellow additive. He did say if I was looking for water resistance than I should use Titebond II, but I don't plan on putting my rockets in the water. I have been using the new Titebond translucent and it dries hard and fast........Sounds like a movie. I did a side by side sanding test with the new glue and yellow glue and there is no difference other than I think the white glue is a little stiffer. As far as shrinking, it shrinks but not as much as the yellow glue.
I just bought a bottle of the new white Molding and Trim glue today and will compare it to the previous Molding and trim glue. The rep said the new version will probably replace the older Molding and Trim Glue since it is a better formula. He said it dries faster, harder and easier to sand. Also he said there is no shrinkage. By the way the previous TMTG is a PVA even though the MSDS call it Thixotropic polyvinyl acetate. Thixotropic just means thickening he said.......Dang big words.
Hmmmm, Just tried the new Trim glue and I cannot tell the difference.

[luke strawwalker]

It seems that there is now an Elmer's Glue All in new packaging! The applicator is a flat blade sealed spout as opposed to a pin seal. Also seems to be marked with "Interior"

I HATE those "blade dispensers"... NO control over the glue whatsoever...

They're fine if your coating blocks of wood with glue before clamping them together, but TOTALLY useless for the kind of fine work we do...

I end up robbing "pin seal" caps off old bottles of school glue...

Later! OL JR :)

[luke strawwalker]

A representative from Franklin/Titebond returned my call today and was able to discuss the new white glues. The new Translucent Glue is new and the formula is different from the previous all purpose white Glue Titebond used to make. This is the same PVA as Titebond Original except the yellow additive is not added. I thought Yellow glue is Aliphatic, what ever that means. He told me that is the name given to yellow glue but it is a PVA with yellow additive. He did say if I was looking for water resistance than I should use Titebond II, but I don't plan on putting my rockets in the water. I have been using the new Titebond translucent and it dries hard and fast........Sounds like a movie. I did a side by side sanding test with the new glue and yellow glue and there is no difference other than I think the white glue is a little stiffer. As far as shrinking, it shrinks but not as much as the yellow glue.
I just bought a bottle of the new white Molding and Trim glue today and will compare it to the previous Molding and trim glue. The rep said the new version will probably replace the older Molding and Trim Glue since it is a better formula. He said it dries faster, harder and easier to sand. Also he said there is no shrinkage. By the way the previous TMTG is a PVA even though the MSDS call it Thixotropic polyvinyl acetate. Thixotropic just means thickening he said.......Dang big words.
Hmmmm, Just tried the new Trim glue and I cannot tell the difference.

Good info there... thanks for that...

"Thixotropic" polyvinyl acetate-- IE "thickened PVA"-- IE thickened white glue... LOL:) Sounds like all the same stuff to me.

Glad to hear that the TMTG replacement is a bit harder and easier to sand (though I've never had a need to sand it really if you put it on right) but I DID notice it's a bit "softer" than I'd really like to see... sounds like it'll be a good replacement product (not that the original was bad by any stretch-- it's probably THE most impressive new adhesive product I've seen in the last few years!).

I think the Titebond I is the "yellow colored PVA" glue he was talking about correct?? Titebond II is significantly harder, and seems much more like a real "aliphatic resin" glue than a PVA white glue. Of course the differences kinda blur, because they probably just add aliphatic resin to PVA to make yellow wood glue anyway. I use Titebond II on ALL wood/fin joints on my rocket builds, and usually in areas prone to heat soaks, like centering rings to motor tubes. I use white glues to put motor mounts in, to avoid 'sucked in rings' around the body tube from yellow glue shrinkage, and because these joints are not subjected to direct heating anything like the motor tube/centering ring joints are (due to the insulating properties of the centering rings and longer heat soak paths-- IE further from the motor heat source!)

Glad to hear the information you've passed on. Thank you!

OL JR :)

[dyaugo]

I HATE those "blade dispensers"... NO control over the glue whatsoever...

They're fine if your coating blocks of wood with glue before clamping them together, but TOTALLY useless for the kind of fine work we do...

I end up robbing "pin seal" caps off old bottles of school glue...

Later! OL JR :)

I hear you. When I am making fillets I tape off my fillets....run my finger down the fillet...give it a few minutes and pull the tape off. Works great and you have a very uniform and clean fillet.

[chrism]

I hear you. When I am making fillets I tape off my fillets....run my finger down the fillet...give it a few minutes and pull the tape off. Works great and you have a very uniform and clean fillet.

Wow, that's a good idea, thanks Dyaugo!

[dyaugo]

Wow, that's a good idea, thanks Dyaugo!

I thought everyone did fillets that way. They use the same method for epoxy so why not wood glue?

I also use the same method with epoxy clay. Once I get the clay fillet uniform and smooth I pull the tape and then gently blend the edge of the clay into the body tube and fin...after it sets up I come back over it with a piece of sandpaper glued to a wood dowel and then sand it to blend it more.

[jharding58]

I HATE those "blade dispensers"... NO control over the glue whatsoever...

They're fine if your coating blocks of wood with glue before clamping them together, but TOTALLY useless for the kind of fine work we do...

I end up robbing "pin seal" caps off old bottles of school glue...

Later! OL JR :)

I use a 30cc syringe with a ground down 10 gauge needle. They are available OTC at Tractor Supply for veterinary use.

[chrism]

I thought everyone did fillets that way. They use the same method for epoxy so why not wood glue?

I also use the same method with epoxy clay. Once I get the clay fillet uniform and smooth I pull the tape and then gently blend the edge of the clay into the body tube and fin...after it sets up I come back over it with a piece of sandpaper glued to a wood dowel and then sand it to blend it more.

Since I build LPR, I don't use expoxy on them. I usually follow the directions that come with the kit that would have you run a bead of glue along the joints and smooth out the glue with your finger twice. Then I would use a damp paper towel to wipe away the excess. But the method you described would eliminate a lot of the excess glue.

[dyaugo]

Since I build LPR, I don't use expoxy on them. I usually follow the directions that come with the kit that would have you run a bead of glue along the joints and smooth out the glue with your finger twice. Then I would use a damp paper towel to wipe away the excess. But the method you described would eliminate a lot of the excess glue.

That's true you wouldn't need any epoxy on LPR kits...I do use the epoxy on the kits for engine mount and coupler installation.

Try it out and let me know what you think?

[Peter Olivola]

Why use the bottle for dispensing the glue at all? Why not put a quantity on a plastic/nylon snap lid and use the pointed end of a wooden skewer to apply the glue even more prercisely?

I HATE those "blade dispensers"... NO control over the glue whatsoever...

They're fine if your coating blocks of wood with glue before clamping them together, but TOTALLY useless for the kind of fine work we do...

I end up robbing "pin seal" caps off old bottles of school glue...

Later! OL JR :)

[chrism]

I tend to discount anything made out of a stack of foam cups.
For any REAL rocket (not oddroc) made out of NORMAL rocketry materials, I stand by my comment about hot melt glue. It IS GARBAGE.
For the one out of a THOUSAND+ available kits on the market, maybe hot melt glue is acceptable.
How 'bout some of that "Liquid Hyde Glue" that has a stink any prankster would be proud to unleash ?
It should be put in the same catagory as Pop Fly, The Dude, and Potra Potty

[Mark II]

Why use the bottle for dispensing the glue at all? Why not put a quantity on a plastic/nylon snap lid and use the pointed end of a wooden skewer to apply the glue even more prercisely?Yup. I never dispense any glue other than CA directly from the bottle. I keep a stack of small paper plates and a bowl of toothpicks on my work table for that purpose.

A handy source for "glue syringes" are the syringe-type oral medication dispensers that are sold at pharmacies. I use one to dispense TMTG for fillets. I just unscrew the cap on the glue bottle, insert the syringe, pull back on the plunger, withdraw the syringe and wipe of the outside with a damp paper towel. It lays down a nice, even bead of glue that is just the right width into the fillet. No need to mask for the fillet because the one that the dispenser makes is so neat and tidy. Just shape it with a swipe of your finger. When I'm done I just squeeze the remainder of the glue back into the bottle, and then head over to the sink to wash out the syringe. You can pull the plunger completely out to get at the last little bits of glue that won't flush out. Pulling the plunger out doesn't damage the syringe in any way; it is designed to be dismantled like that for cleaning. A couple minutes of rinsing under the tap gets out every trace of white glue or carpenter's glue. Just dry everything off, push the plunger back into the barrel, and it's ready for the next build. I bought two of the oral syringe medication dispensers two years ago, and I have yet to take the second one out of its package.

[luke strawwalker]

Meh... that's a good method for epoxy but kind of a waste of time with wood glue IMHO...

I put THIN wood glue fillets on the rocket for strength-- I use double glue joints with wood glue to attach fins, and squeeze out the excess wood glue from the joint while I'm holding it (about 30 seconds) and the fin sets up tight, perfectly aligned. I then put a THIN layer of wood glue along the joint line, and spread it with my finger-- when I say thin, just enough wood glue to connect the "droplets" of wood glue squeezed out along the fin root. One swipe with a finger is all it takes to put a 'perfect' fillet down the fin root, and do the other side. When these dry, the fin is locked onto the rocket so tight the tube will delaminate before the fin pops off...

Then, for an aerodynamic fillet (and to make the rocket "pretty") I put a fillet of Titebond Moulding and Trim Glue (TMTG) over this wood glue "mini-fillet" and smooth that with a damp finger... quick, easy, and I can do ALL the fins at once, since TMTG doesn't run, shrink, or pit like yellow or plain white glue. Presto, all done-- no wasted tape or time laying down tape lines, etc.

If you're having to wipe off massive amounts of glue, your using too much anyway. At most I have to wipe my finger off on a paper towel ONCE mid-fillet to put down a perfectly rounded TMTG fillet... any more than that, and I laid down too much glue before I started smoothing it. Waste of materials and time.

OF course, that said, the tape method is an EXCELLENT way to do fillets with EPOXY, since you don't want skin contact and cleaning up excess glue is a MAJOR pain in the butt. I just don't think it's remotely necessary for regular wood/white/trim glue fillets...

Later! OL JR :)

[dyaugo]

Yup. I never dispense any glue other than CA directly from the bottle. I keep a stack of small paper plates and a bowl of toothpicks on my work table for that purpose.

A handy source for "glue syringes" are the syringe-type oral medication dispensers that are sold at pharmacies. I use one to dispense TMTG for fillets. I just unscrew the cap on the glue bottle, insert the syringe, pull back on the plunger, withdraw the syringe and wipe of the outside with a damp paper towel. It lays down a nice, even bead of glue that is just the right width into the fillet. No need to mask for the fillet because the one that the dispenser makes is so neat and tidy. Just shape it with a swipe of your finger. When I'm done I just squeeze the remainder of the glue back into the bottle, and then head over to the sink to wash out the syringe. You can pull the plunger completely out to get at the last little bits of glue that won't flush out. Pulling the plunger out doesn't damage the syringe in any way; it is designed to be dismantled like that for cleaning. A couple minutes of rinsing under the tap gets out every trace of white glue or carpenter's glue. Just dry everything off, push the plunger back into the barrel, and it's ready for the next build. I bought two of the oral syringe medication dispensers two years ago, and I have yet to take the second one out of its package.

Whatever works best ya know?

[dyaugo]

Meh... that's a good method for epoxy but kind of a waste of time with wood glue IMHO...

I put THIN wood glue fillets on the rocket for strength-- I use double glue joints with wood glue to attach fins, and squeeze out the excess wood glue from the joint while I'm holding it (about 30 seconds) and the fin sets up tight, perfectly aligned. I then put a THIN layer of wood glue along the joint line, and spread it with my finger-- when I say thin, just enough wood glue to connect the "droplets" of wood glue squeezed out along the fin root. One swipe with a finger is all it takes to put a 'perfect' fillet down the fin root, and do the other side. When these dry, the fin is locked onto the rocket so tight the tube will delaminate before the fin pops off...

Then, for an aerodynamic fillet (and to make the rocket "pretty") I put a fillet of Titebond Moulding and Trim Glue (TMTG) over this wood glue "mini-fillet" and smooth that with a damp finger... quick, easy, and I can do ALL the fins at once, since TMTG doesn't run, shrink, or pit like yellow or plain white glue. Presto, all done-- no wasted tape or time laying down tape lines, etc.

If you're having to wipe off massive amounts of glue, your using too much anyway. At most I have to wipe my finger off on a paper towel ONCE mid-fillet to put down a perfectly rounded TMTG fillet... any more than that, and I laid down too much glue before I started smoothing it. Waste of materials and time.

OF course, that said, the tape method is an EXCELLENT way to do fillets with EPOXY, since you don't want skin contact and cleaning up excess glue is a MAJOR pain in the butt. I just don't think it's remotely necessary for regular wood/white/trim glue fillets...

Later! OL JR :)

Whatever works best ya know?

[Mark II]

Whatever works best ya know?
Whatever works best ya know?Each of us sharing our own favorite methods and comparing notes is a good thing, no?

[dyaugo]

Each of us sharing our own favorite methods and comparing notes is a good thing, no?

I absolutely agree 100% ... just saying whatever method works best for ya stick with it...its all good and the end results are good then there ya go :p

[Mark II]

I absolutely agree 100% ... just saying whatever method works best for ya stick with it...its all good and the end results are good then there ya go :pWith apologies to Duke Ellington: if it looks good and it flies good, it is good. :chuckle:

[luke strawwalker]

Whatever works best ya know?

Sure... I wasn't implying otherwise...

But there's no harm in comparing benefits/drawbacks of certain methods either methinks...

There are two camps around here that often meet on the field of battle-- those who prefer aromatic solvent balsa fillers and those that are satisfied with water-based fillers... both obviously get good results or they'd change their methods and materials, but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of skirmishes over which is "better"... LOL:)

Why should this be any different?? :D

Later! OL JR :)

[dyaugo]

Sure... I wasn't implying otherwise...

But there's no harm in comparing benefits/drawbacks of certain methods either methinks...

There are two camps around here that often meet on the field of battle-- those who prefer aromatic solvent balsa fillers and those that are satisfied with water-based fillers... both obviously get good results or they'd change their methods and materials, but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of skirmishes over which is "better"... LOL:)

Why should this be any different?? :D

Later! OL JR :)

Well said JR! We all have our techniques and we are comfortable doing things a certain way...but YES it is good to share techniques...after all that's the benefits of belonging to a forum such as this...you have an opportunity to express yourself and building techniques so for those new to hobby don't have to go through all the mistakes "we" made when starting out... I know it's a lot cheaper to learn from else's mistakes...it's good all around

[PaulK]

Anyone else use Weldbond? I use this whenever I don't want the shrinkage and/or color of yellow wood glue. Good stuff.

[dyaugo]

Anyone else use Weldbond? I use this whenever I don't want the shrinkage and/or color of yellow wood glue. Good stuff.

who makes it?

[Mark II]

Sure... I wasn't implying otherwise...

But there's no harm in comparing benefits/drawbacks of certain methods either methinks...

There are two camps around here that often meet on the field of battle-- those who prefer aromatic solvent balsa fillers and those that are satisfied with water-based fillers... both obviously get good results or they'd change their methods and materials, but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of skirmishes over which is "better"... LOL:)

Why should this be any different?? :D

Later! OL JR :)And then there are those of us who feel that there are too many meaningless distinctions in this hobby already. We use a number of different techniques when we build rockets. For instance, I like to use water-based sealers on nose cones, and dope-based fillers and sealers on balsa fins. And, grab onto your seats now, I have been known to use epoxy in MicroMaxx rockets (plenty of times, in fact) and white glue in HPRs. What "camp" does all of that put me in?

I color outside the lines. I stubbornly defy categorization. I am fundamentally ecumenical about construction methods. Some categorization schemes are meaningless, and some debates are simply nonsensical. We can all learn from each other.

[scigs30]

After building my Vector Force with very little supplies, I think I am subscribing to KISS.

[Neal Miller]

Has anyone ever tried using glazing and spot putty to seal balsa ? I have used 3 M Bondo brand, I realy like this for larger Projects that would take Alot of Sanding Sealer. I apply it with a thin plastic card, ( any of those free store club cards are great to use). I put a blob of this putty on a fin and then spread it thin and flat. you dont want to over apply as it makes for more work sanding and cleaning up the extra dust. this putty is also good for filling dents in wooden nosecones and repairing the edges of fins. As with all solvent based products,
follow the safety warnings listed on the package.

[dyaugo]

After building my Vector Force with very little supplies, I think I am subscribing to KISS.

You really don't need a lot. I have CA, Epoxy and wood glue, but depending on the build I use certain adhesives for certain applications. You can build a rocket entirely with wood glue if you wanted...different adhesives apply to different applications.

[dyaugo]

Has anyone ever tried using glazing and spot putty to seal balsa ? I have used 3 M Bondo brand, I realy like this for larger Projects that would take Alot of Sanding Sealer. I apply it with a thin plastic card, ( any of those free store club cards are great to use). I put a blob of this putty on a fin and then spread it thin and flat. you dont want to over apply as it makes for more work sanding and cleaning up the extra dust. this putty is also good for filling dents in wooden nosecones and repairing the edges of fins. As with all solvent based products,
follow the safety warnings listed on the package.

I use either FnF, Aero-Gloss or skin the fins with paper.

[Mark II]

Has anyone ever tried using glazing and spot putty to seal balsa ? I have used 3 M Bondo brand, I realy like this for larger Projects that would take Alot of Sanding Sealer. I apply it with a thin plastic card, ( any of those free store club cards are great to use). I put a blob of this putty on a fin and then spread it thin and flat. you dont want to over apply as it makes for more work sanding and cleaning up the extra dust. this putty is also good for filling dents in wooden nosecones and repairing the edges of fins. As with all solvent based products,
follow the safety warnings listed on the package.This is straying a bit off-topic, buy yeah, I have thought about trying Bondo GSP as a grain filler. I think I would want to thin it down a little with acetone, first, to make the consistency closer to that of paint. I would think that would enable me to apply thin coats so that I wouldn't end up wasting a lot of it. I have used the putty to fill small to medium-sized holes and dents in balsa.

[luke strawwalker]

And then there are those of us who feel that there are too many meaningless distinctions in this hobby already. We use a number of different techniques when we build rockets. For instance, I like to use water-based sealers on nose cones, and dope-based fillers and sealers on balsa fins. And, grab onto your seats now, I have been known to use epoxy in MicroMaxx rockets (plenty of times, in fact) and white glue in HPRs. What "camp" does all of that put me in?

I color outside the lines. I stubbornly defy categorization. I am fundamentally ecumenical about construction methods. Some categorization schemes are meaningless, and some debates are simply nonsensical. We can all learn from each other.

HERETIC!!!! :D

OL JR :)

[luke strawwalker]

I use either FnF, Aero-Gloss or skin the fins with paper.

I almost exclusively skin the fins with paper now...

Balsa fins become almost as strong as plywood when skinned with regular printer paper and a THIN layer of white glue... I've got the results to prove it...
Adds almost NO weight and makes finishing the fins rediculously easy... skip virtually all the sanding (except stack-sanding the fins to identical shape and sanding in whatever airfoil/cross-section you desire before papering).

The only thing it doesn't work especially well on is rounded (elliptical) shaped fins or ones with extremely complicated (compound angle) shapes.... though it CAN be made to work with those too... just not the 'roll over the leading edge" method I prefer...

Later! OL JR :)

[JRThro]

I have always used Elmers white glue with great results but then they changed the forumla and not it is junk.
How is the new Elmer's glue junk? How is it different from the old stuff?

[jeffyjeep]

The "new" Elmer's works OK for me--that is in applications where I use white glue (couplers, engine mounts, paper wraps) AND it's 40 cents for a 4 oz bottle at the Walmart and Meijer back to school displays. I bought 4 bottles---it should last me about 3 years. It doesn't seem to perform any different than the "old" Elmer's.

It tastes the same, too. :)

[scigs30]

I have been building balsa airplanes for many years and only use Elmers white glue. I tried the new improved Elmers and the joints were brittle when I would sand them. I did a couple of tests side by side with new and old and there is a difference in strength and tack time. Also the new formula is thinner. I am building a Sterling Pt-17 and Estes Xarconian Cruiser using the White Titebond and I must say I am impressed. The tack time is pretty fast and the strength and ease of sanding is just as good as carpenters glue. I thought maybe I bought a bad bottle of Elmers but the others at my flying club have also noticed the change.

[dyaugo]

I almost exclusively skin the fins with paper now...

Balsa fins become almost as strong as plywood when skinned with regular printer paper and a THIN layer of white glue... I've got the results to prove it...
Adds almost NO weight and makes finishing the fins rediculously easy... skip virtually all the sanding (except stack-sanding the fins to identical shape and sanding in whatever airfoil/cross-section you desire before papering).

The only thing it doesn't work especially well on is rounded (elliptical) shaped fins or ones with extremely complicated (compound angle) shapes.... though it CAN be made to work with those too... just not the 'roll over the leading edge" method I prefer...

Later! OL JR :)

I agree with you 100% on the skinning of fins. That's all I use too...like you said fins are pretty difficult to skin based on their shape so I still skin, but skip the leading edge. When I do just CA the edges except for the root edge and I'm good to go

[Mark II]

I agree with you 100% on the skinning of fins. That's all I use too...like you said fins are pretty difficult to skin based on their shape so I still skin, but skip the leading edge. When I do just CA the edges except for the root edge and I'm good to goI reserve paper skins for large pattern balsa fins and those with unusual and easily breakable shapes (for example, The Bat). For small pattern balsa fins, like those on my FSI Hornet, a few coats of dope sealer and balsa fillercoat do the job. I think the added toughness might be due to more than just having the grain filled. They certainly won't stop a bullet, but they are a bit harder and also stiffer after the dope treatment. With small pattern fins, skinning starts to look suspiciously like work, which is definitely not the idea! :eek: The added thickness that the skins add, trivial on larger fins, starts to become apparent on smaller fins, too.

BTW, ever hear of skinning plywood with plywood? I did that for the fins of my Javelin XL (Level 1 cert rocket). I also edged them with bamboo half-rounds.

[K.M.Knox]

I decided it was time to try the Molding & Trim Wood Glue a few of you have been talking about for filets. I really like the stuff so far, but I wondering something.

Those of you who use it, do you put on one filet of your glue of choice for construction and then apply a filet of M&TWG or just go straight to the M&TWG for the full filet? I have started my use with applying one Titebond II filet and then a over filet of the M&TWG. It makes a nice smooth filet and appears to cover the air bubble gaps in the TII very nicely...

Do you think there is enough adhesion if one went right to the M&TWG for the whole filet?

[Mark II]

I have used it both ways. I have used it as a second filleting material to smooth out and fix up rough white glue fillets on rockets that I built back when I used to try to make fillets with white glue. For small rockets with small balsa fins, I use it to make the fillets after bonding the fins with wood glue. For larger rockets or larger fins I make the fillets with epoxy.

[luke strawwalker]

I decided it was time to try the Molding & Trim Wood Glue a few of you have been talking about for filets. I really like the stuff so far, but I wondering something.

Those of you who use it, do you put on one filet of your glue of choice for construction and then apply a filet of M&TWG or just go straight to the M&TWG for the full filet? I have started my use with applying one Titebond II filet and then a over filet of the M&TWG. It makes a nice smooth filet and appears to cover the air bubble gaps in the TII very nicely...

Do you think there is enough adhesion if one went right to the M&TWG for the whole filet?

I use double-glue joints to attach fins with Titebond II wood glue. The excess that gets squeezed out when the double glue joint sets up, I usually add a light bead of Titebond II and then spread it in a thin fillet to smooth everything out and give a little extra strength. Once this has dried (usually overnight) I go back the next day and apply the TMTG (trim glue) over it to make smooth, even, no run/no bubble fillets. What's nice is that you can do ALL the fillets on the rocket at once and set it aside to dry without worrying about it running or sagging like with other glues.

Works like a champ! OL JR :)

[Bill]

I just bought a bottle of the new white Molding and Trim glue today and will compare it to the previous Molding and trim glue. The rep said the new version will probably replace the older Molding and Trim Glue since it is a better formula. He said it dries faster, harder and easier to sand. Also he said there is no shrinkage. By the way the previous TMTG is a PVA even though the MSDS call it Thixotropic polyvinyl acetate. Thixotropic just means thickening he said.......Dang big words.
Hmmmm, Just tried the new Trim glue and I cannot tell the difference.


I just bought a bottle of what I think is the new stuff. The label on the old one says "Molding & Trim Wood Glue" and the new one says "No-run, no-drip Wood Glue." The old one has the words "No-run, no-drip" in the arc over the drawing of the clamp and the new one has "Molding & Trim" there.

But, and that's a big but, the bar code is exactly the same on both. Is this truly a different product? The bar code is how I used to identify Fill 'N Finish when Elmers kept changing its name.


Bill

[CPMcGraw]

Thought I'd post a follow-up on using Titebond's "new" Translucent Wood Glue. I've started using it with a few builds, and the first "plus" in my opinion is the super tack of the glue. It is much stronger in the initial set-up than any of the other Titebond formulas. For fins, apply a layer to each bonding surface, and just stick the fin in place. The fin remains "stuck" without having to worry about it dropping off while you're trying to get the next fin ready.

The second plus is a very quick drying time. This can also be a "minus" if you're applying the glue with an art brush, as it can set up in the bristles before you notice it. But if you keep a small jar with some warm water in it, the glue will quickly dissolve and the brush becomes usable again.

The third plus seems to be a low shrink. I used it to install an engine mount in a Quest Icarus, and I cannot see any evidence of the body tube "dimpling" around the centering rings like you see with other formulations. When the glue had dried on the mount itself, even those thin, shirt-cardboard rings found in Quest kits proved to be sufficiently stiff enough. There is also no tube "staining" like you see with some of the yellow aliphatic resins.

The fourth plus is the way it virtually disappears when it has dried. I was thinking it would leave behind a "clear plastic" type of joint, but I am pleasantly surprised at how clean the joints appear on this Icarus. This may build up a bit when I start adding fillets, but it doesn't look like it's going to be as noticeable as other glues.

I think I'm going to like this formulation. The real test will be when I begin this Semroc Mars Lander kit that's been patiently waiting for several years for me to get around to. Working those wraps will be interesting.

[Mark II]

Thought I'd post a follow-up on using Titebond's "new" Translucent Wood Glue. I have still not seen this version yet in my area.

[tbzep]

Thought I'd post a follow-up on using Titebond's "new" Translucent Wood Glue. I've started using it with a few builds, and the first "plus" in my opinion is the super tack of the glue. It is much stronger in the initial set-up than any of the other Titebond formulas. For fins, apply a layer to each bonding surface, and just stick the fin in place. The fin remains "stuck" without having to worry about it dropping off while you're trying to get the next fin ready.

The second plus is a very quick drying time. This can also be a "minus" if you're applying the glue with an art brush, as it can set up in the bristles before you notice it. But if you keep a small jar with some warm water in it, the glue will quickly dissolve and the brush becomes usable again.

The third plus seems to be a low shrink. I used it to install an engine mount in a Quest Icarus, and I cannot see any evidence of the body tube "dimpling" around the centering rings like you see with other formulations. When the glue had dried on the mount itself, even those thin, shirt-cardboard rings found in Quest kits proved to be sufficiently stiff enough. There is also no tube "staining" like you see with some of the yellow aliphatic resins.

The fourth plus is the way it virtually disappears when it has dried. I was thinking it would leave behind a "clear plastic" type of joint, but I am pleasantly surprised at how clean the joints appear on this Icarus. This may build up a bit when I start adding fillets, but it doesn't look like it's going to be as noticeable as other glues.

I think I'm going to like this formulation. The real test will be when I begin this Semroc Mars Lander kit that's been patiently waiting for several years for me to get around to. Working those wraps will be interesting.

The next test is shoving in a coupler tube or a Centuri style motor mount and let us know if it grabs. As quick as it tacked fins, I'm afraid that it would be a disaster for couplers and coupler style mounts.

[CPMcGraw]

The next test is shoving in a coupler tube or a Centuri style motor mount and let us know if it grabs. As quick as it tacked fins, I'm afraid that it would be a disaster for couplers and coupler style mounts.

Oops...

Forgot one, and yes, it grabs tight...!

I was trying to work on an Estes EPM-010, joining the two main BT-50s. The coupler is one of the newer "fuzzy-skin" thin-wall types, and the glue was so sticky it "froze" before the tubes were together and aligned. I managed to crimp one of the tubes along the spiral seam pushing on them.

I blame the coupler more than the glue, but this might be a good use of something with a bit less tack...

[Bill]

Oops...

Forgot one, and yes, it grabs tight...!

I was trying to work on an Estes EPM-010, joining the two main BT-50s. The coupler is one of the newer "fuzzy-skin" thin-wall types, and the glue was so sticky it "froze" before the tubes were together and aligned. I managed to crimp one of the tubes along the spiral seam pushing on them.

I blame the coupler more than the glue, but this might be a good use of something with a bit less tack...


This would seem to call for a slightly different technique. Apply a ring of glue deep in the body tube just before where the end of the coupler would be when in place. Another ring on the outside of the coupler just before the halfway point. Insert coupler. Wipe off excess glue from the exposed part of the coupler.


Bill

[luke strawwalker]

Oops...

Forgot one, and yes, it grabs tight...!

I was trying to work on an Estes EPM-010, joining the two main BT-50s. The coupler is one of the newer "fuzzy-skin" thin-wall types, and the glue was so sticky it "froze" before the tubes were together and aligned. I managed to crimp one of the tubes along the spiral seam pushing on them.

I blame the coupler more than the glue, but this might be a good use of something with a bit less tack...

Yep, "slippery, runny, and slow" is what you want for couplers-- DEFINITELY not "tacky, grabby, and FAST!"

Later! OL JR :)

[bernomatic]

Mucilage? Gum arabic?

By the way, last week at the hardware store I saw a product called JB WoodWeld wood epoxy (http://www.amazon.com/J-B-Weld-8251-WoodWeld-Adhesive/dp/B004NB3OMS), made by our friend, the JB Weld company. Has anyone tried this stuff out?


http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51RiRaVhB3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg
I hate to reopen an old thread, but I was wondering if anyone had anything to say about the JB Weld Wood Weld. I only found this thread with a mention and it looked like Marks post was completely ignored.

So, any helpful advice regarding it??

I bought some and have tried it on my Orbital Transport Clone.

[luke strawwalker]

I hate to reopen an old thread, but I was wondering if anyone had anything to say about the JB Weld Wood Weld. I only found this thread with a mention and it looked like Marks post was completely ignored.

So, any helpful advice regarding it??

I bought some and have tried it on my Orbital Transport Clone.

Interesting... no experience with it...

Obviously its an epoxy since it's in two parts, but how it differs from ordinary JBWeld is anybody's guess... or from regular epoxy for that matter...

Please report back on what you find...

Later! OL JR :)

[bernomatic]

My initial thoughts are mixed.

I bought this specifically for my Orbital Transport build as the wings on the booster tend to take a lot of stress and I thought I would like to try an epoxy for the fillets. Directions state around five minute set time and while I did not put a clock on it this time, that seems about right. I would like a bit more time to work the fillets (especially in the tight areas between fins) but all in all it's reasonable. The color is a light to medium brown when working it and dries to a glossy sheen. The smell is "unique" but didn't overpower me (to be honest, at first hint of the aroma, I thought the dog might have eaten something funny and let one go).

tbc