What are Some Good "D Two Stage Kits ?

[wz2p7j]

I'd like to add a two stage 24 mm rocket to the fleet. What are some good ones out there? The two stage Cherokee-D mod looks interesting. There's always the old Estes Omega D build and it looks like Estes is soon going to release the "Air Commander."

What are some other good ones I might want to consider? How about any with 24 mm boost and 18 mm sustainer?

Thanks, Chris

[MKP]

I've wanted a Rip-Roar for a while.

DynaStar Rip-Roar (http://www.apogeerockets.com/Rip-Roar.asp)

The Omega is also fun, I cloned one of those.

[Joe Wooten]

The Sea Strike is another good one and cool looking too. I also used strap-on stages with it.

[wz2p7j]

Good suggestions so far of two great kits I was not familiar with.

Thanks, Chris

[chrism]

One rocket that fits the bill is the Centuri Magnum SAM-3. Here is a link to see one.

http://www.ninfinger.org/rockets/nostalgia/82cen18.html

[jeffyjeep]

The Estes Magnum #2032 should be easy enough to clone if you can't find a kit.

Here's the last one I built:

[Raygun]

I'd like to add a two stage 24 mm rocket to the fleet. What are some good ones out there? The two stage Cherokee-D mod looks interesting. There's always the old Estes Omega D build and it looks like Estes is soon going to release the "Air Commander."

What are some other good ones I might want to consider? How about any with 24 mm boost and 18 mm sustainer?

Thanks, Chris

A very sound design and great flying rocket was the Estes 'Sea Strike D'
http://plans.rocketshoppe.com/estes/est1332/est1332.htm

[CPMcGraw]

The Estes Magnum #2032 should be easy enough to clone if you can't find a kit.

Here's the last one I built:

It could probably be modified for D-D with good results, but stock this is a D-C or D-B design. The sustainer is only 18mm in the original version.

[Joe Wooten]

Another good conversion to D-D power is the Apache 2

[jeffyjeep]

It could probably be modified for D-D with good results, but stock this is a D-C or D-B design. The sustainer is only 18mm in the original version.
I was answering the second question on the original post: "How about 24mm booster and 18mm sustainer?"

[wz2p7j]

Thanks again guys for the great suggestions. I'm interested in 2 stage kits with 24 mm boosters and both 18 and 24 mm sustainer motors.

Chris

[Doug Sams]

Thanks again guys for the great suggestions. I'm interested in 2 stage kits with 24 mm boosters and both 18 and 24 mm sustainer motors.
It looks like you can still get the CC Express kit. http://www.a2zhobbies.com/CC-Express-p/est-1302.htm

For cloning, another to consider is the Delta Clipper. http://www.spacemodeling.org/JimZ/est2067.htm

Or, you can always upscale a Midget :D:D:D This is a BT-60 version. Doug .
http://www.doug79.com/bidget/bidget2-2p.jpg (http://www.doug79.com/bidget/)

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[Doug Sams]

I've wanted a Rip-Roar for a while.

DynaStar Rip-Roar (http://www.apogeerockets.com/Rip-Roar.asp) I've wondered how well that one does. I've scratch built one BT-70 based 2-stager, and it proved to be marginal with a single D12-0 in the booster. (I ultimately added three 18mm outboards to the booster to fix it.)

While my bird had room for improvement, my take is that, with just about any BT-70 based 2-stager, you'll need a long rod and calm air to get in a good flight (one that doesn't weather cock badly).

Doug

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[SEL]

It looks like you can still get the CC Express kit. http://www.a2zhobbies.com/CC-Express-p/est-1302.htm

For cloning, another to consider is the Delta Clipper. http://www.spacemodeling.org/JimZ/est2067.htm

Or, you can always upscale a Midget :D:D:D This is a BT-60 version. Doug .
http://www.doug79.com/bidget/bidget2-2p.jpg (http://www.doug79.com/bidget/)

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The Delta Clipper is one of my favorites - I still have the bottom stage.

S.

[CPMcGraw]

I was answering the second question on the original post: "How about 24mm booster and 18mm sustainer?"

Ahh, so you were... :o

Then I second your motion without reservation... :D

[ghrocketman]

I would put a extra vote in for the Astron Omega and the Centuri Magnum-D SAM-3.
The two-stage Cherokee-D looks good, but that thing on a SINGLE D is hard to recover without a LARGE field, let alone on two-stages of D's.
I have lost more Cherokee-D's than any other rocket.
Must have been at least 7 or 8 of them.

[El Cheapo]

If you want to go big, I've seen a staged Mean Machine which was cool. Ive done a staged executioner which puts on a great show.

[ghrocketman]

If you have the space to fly it in, build an Astron Omega with an Estes "E" size mount in the upper stage.
Put the camera-nose from an Estes Oracle on top.
Fly on a D12-0 to E9-8 in a large field.
Other combinations can include C11-0 to C11-7, C11-0 to E9-8, D12-0 to D12-7, C11-0 to D12-7, and D12-0 to C11-7.
At one time or another I tried all of them but the D12-0 to C11-7.

[foamy]

The three stage Estes Comanche 3 (http://www.estesrockets.com/00138-comanche-3tm) has a D booster as it's first stage. I'm sure any of the other stages could accommodate a D as well —the body tubes are D sized. Or you could build it stock and just fly as many of the two boosters as you wanted. You really do need a big field, though. The first time I used all three stages was the last time I saw it. It's a good looking rocket and flies great.

[MKP]

I have a huge field, several hundred acres of open sagebrush flat, and I still lost my Comanche 3. :D Thing is dang near impossible to track, but it is a lot of fun.

[Joe Wooten]

I have a huge field, several hundred acres of open sagebrush flat, and I still lost my Comanche 3. :D Thing is dang near impossible to track, but it is a lot of fun.

I got mine back - all pieces on a D12/C5/C6-7, but I managed to put a 10' 4" wide mylar streamer in it with red carpenters chalk on top of that to make a red cloud. . So far that is the only time I have flown it full up.

The conversion to D-D-D sounds interesting.......

[space_bus]

One D-to-D two-stager I've long admired (but not yet acquired) is Doug Sams' Tuber (with tube-finned sustainer) from The Squirrel Works:

http://www.squirrel-works.com/catalog/tuber/tuber.html

[Doug Sams]

One D-to-D two-stager I've long admired (but not yet acquired) is Doug Sams' Tuber (with tube-finned sustainer) from The Squirrel Works:

http://www.squirrel-works.com/catalog/tuber/tuber.htmlWell, what are you waiting for? :D:D BTW, for whatever reason, I limited my earlier answer to Estes only and didn't even think of this one :o

Here's a favorite pic of mine. Doug .
http://www.doug79.com/tuber/tuber-asa-pan2p.jpg


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[space_bus]

Well, what are you waiting for? :D:D BTW, for whatever reason, I limited my earlier answer to Estes only and didn't even think of this one :o

I figured you were just being modest. :)

Hmm ... looks like there's something extra there in that picture. :eek: Did you recover all the stages?

[Doug Sams]

I figured you were just being modest. :)

Hmm ... looks like there's something extra there in that picture. :eek: Did you recover all the stages?Yes. Thanks to two young men with good eyes and a wide open field, the pieces were all recovered.

After I wrecked - totalled - the original (way back around Christmas of 2002), I built a new one with 24mm mounts, and included a 3rd stage. It used the earlier rocket's nosecone after I had cadged it back together.

I promptly wrecked that rocket thereby destroying the nosecone and damaging the body tube. So I spliced in a new length of tube and turned a new nosecone on my lathe. This time, I made the airframe longer and made the nosecone longer with a rounded tip. When Don saw it, he was non-plussed. In hindsight, I realize that I had messed with the design and now understand how that could be alarming to the guy getting ready to kit it ;)

We flew it once in the 3-stage configuration with the single D12-0 first stage. It weathercocked badly. Don and I musta walked a half mile down range to recover it. That first stage booster sat for a long time - several years - before I finally upgraded it with some outboards which solved the slow rod speed problem.

By that time, I'd cut the body tube back to the stock length and Don had spotted me the correct nosecone. I've only flown the clustered 3-stage Uber-Tuber configuration a couple times, but it's way cool that way. In the pic, it had a full stack, 3C6+D12 to D12 to E9. It went way up there :)

If you want, I can send you some drawings to modify a kit into the 3-stage version. I put a set together for another guy so it's no bother.

Doug

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[space_bus]

That's awesome, Doug. :D Any idea how high 'way up there' was?

I'll pm you about the drawings. Thanks!

[Doug Sams]

That's awesome, Doug. :D Any idea how high 'way up there' was?Thanks. I was flying at Asa (east of Waco). There were a bunch of L3's hanging there, and several of them were estimating 3500'. My buddy Dave's a pilot, so I tend to trust his numbers. But I wasn't as optimistic. The thing is pretty draggy. But it put in a perfectly vertical flight, so it was minimal drag. It could well have hit 3000'.

I have several of these 24mm powered model rockets that can hit HPR altitudes :) We (DARS) conducted a launch for such birds a few years ago. We called it Extreme BP. We need to do that again :)



Doug

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[tbzep]

I have several of these 24mm powered model rockets that can hit HPR altitudes :) We (DARS) conducted a launch for such birds a few years ago. We called it Extreme BP. We need to do that again :)
Sounds fun. Maybe Rocketflite will be the rebirth Jonathan is talking about and you can hammer some birds with F50 (later renamed F104) BP motors! I loved the Silver Streaks!

For those of you who aren't familiar: In addition to the F50, Greg Dyben also made G120 and H260 BP motors. He had regular BP motors and the Silver Streaks, which had titanium sponge in them. They dumped sparks like a dozen angle grinders going at once!

[Doug Sams]

In addition to the F50, Greg Dyben also made G120 and H260 BP motors. He had regular BP motors and the Silver Streaks, which had titanium sponge in them. They dumped sparks like a dozen angle grinders going at once!Those were still popular lore when I BAR'd back in 99. It'd be great if that's Jonathon's news.

I'd settle for high thrust BP D's, E's and F's. But I'd probably have to buy a couple of those BP G's and H's :)

When I think of BP G's and H's, pipe bomb comes to mind :D:D:D

BTW, just about any BP F or G motor will have to be HPR due to the propellant mass. You could get a baby F in under the 62.5g limit, but it'd only be ~50Ns.

Doug

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[LeeR]

I have a huge field, several hundred acres of open sagebrush flat, and I still lost my Comanche 3. :D Thing is dang near impossible to track, but it is a lot of fun.

The first Comanche-3 launch I saw was quite unusual. We saw the boosters land reasonably close, but lost sight of the upper stage during a very sunny day, and figured it was a goner. After awhile we hear some mild flapping sound, look up, and the upper stage steamer was the source of the noise, looking like it was directly overhead. It landed about 15-20 feet from the launch pad.

I've never seen that happen since.

[Doug Sams]

The first Comanche-3 launch I saw was quite unusual. We saw the boosters land reasonably close, but lost sight of the upper stage during a very sunny day, and figured it was a goner. After awhile we hear some mild flapping sound, look up, and the upper stage steamer was the source of the noise, looking like it was directly overhead. It landed about 15-20 feet from the launch pad.

I've never seen that happen since.I think a Comanche, on a full D-C-C stack, is extreme BP. I flew (and recovered) that combo at LDRS a few years ago, and it drew lots of kudos. I appreciated the fact that the die hard HPR fliers know what a tough flight that is. Fortunately for me, there were enough friends around to get multiple trackers on each stage. I think the 2nd stage landed over a ¼ mile away! In fact, I think it landed farther away than my L2 attempt did that same weekend :D

Doug

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[tbzep]

BTW, just about any BP F or G motor will have to be HPR due to the propellant mass. You could get a baby F in under the 62.5g limit, but it'd only be ~50Ns.

IIRC, that's what the Rocketflite F50/F104 was. He filled it with about 62.5g of BP and it was somewhere around that 50 n/s range.

[PaulK]

I've wondered how well that one does. ....It does just fine. This flight, IIRC, used a C11-0 booster. I can't take credit for the model or the photo, but I did see it first hand!

[mrhemi1971]

Another estes kit that can be flown 24 to 18, or 24 to 24, is the Long Shot. It has the two fin cans, BT-56 body tubes and you can replace the 18mm upper stage motor mount with a 24mm one. Mine is built like a truck, and has flown a lot with no problems..

[Initiator001]

If you have the space to fly it in, build an Astron Omega with an Estes "E" size mount in the upper stage.
Put the camera-nose from an Estes Oracle on top.
Fly on a D12-0 to E9-8 in a large field.
Other combinations can include C11-0 to C11-7, C11-0 to E9-8, D12-0 to D12-7, C11-0 to D12-7, and D12-0 to C11-7.
At one time or another I tried all of them but the D12-0 to C11-7.

Been there, done that! :)

[LeeR]

Been there, done that! :)

Wow, that is a really stunning Omega. Nicely done -- I want one!