FS (maybe): Repro Estes Odyssey/Rigel 3 nose cone

[tsai]

Hi gang...

Just getting back into rocketry with the son, and I showed him all the old catalogs from my youth to give him ideas of what can be done.

He's been wanting to build a 2 stager, and after looking through the catalogs, he's decided he wants to clone a Rigel 3. Naturally.

So, I've been able to get a nose cone after much searching, and instead of just having a single cone, I'm setting up to try and make a mold and cast a couple pieces for spares/additional builds... I figure I may as well build an Odyssey at the same time.

Anyways, if I am successful at creating a repro cone, I was wondering if anyone here would want one? I can make a few more as easily as just a couple for myself. I'm going to try a couple techniques to see what comes out best, so it could be a single piece cone, or a two piece that needs to be glued together. May even be foam filled.

Cost would vary depending on the number of cones I have to make, but would likely be ~$5-7 plus shipping to cover all the material costs.

Cheers,
- Ken

[Rocket Doctor]

From one Ken to another

I haven't looked at the cone for that one, but, I might have some. Did you try Estes customer service, just by chance they may have some as well.

Ken
RD

[tsai]

From one Ken to another

I haven't looked at the cone for that one, but, I might have some. Did you try Estes customer service, just by chance they may have some as well.

Ken
RD

I hadn't actually thought of calling Estes. The cone has been OOP for so long, and every reference on the net seems to indicate that these are impossible to get outside of existing kits.

Nonetheless, it's a good thought. I'll give them a call.

Cheers,
- Ken

[Rocket Doctor]

I will have to look that kit up to see the shape of the cone, like I said, I might have some.

[STRMan]

[
All I have had to do is ask Carl at Semroc for a cone, and he has made them up for me, even if it wasn't a stock size. You might want to try them out.

[tsai]

[
All I have had to do is ask Carl at Semroc for a cone, and he has made them up for me, even if it wasn't a stock size. You might want to try them out.

Folks,

The Odyssey/Rigel cone is the PNC-55CB. It's the weird molded one that looks like something from an 80's sci-fi show.

If this was a normal cone of any kind, I'd just buy one from Semroc or BMS et al.

I've attached an image from JimZ to clarify.

Cheers,
- Ken

[Chas Russell]

I thought that David Miller of Sirius Rocketry had this cone from his Moldin' Oldies line. It is not on the website nor do I have one of his or an original. He is set up to do the resin cones, but someone with an original would have to let him borrow one to make the mold. I had a Rigel 3 a while back. Must have given it away or sold it in one of the many military moves.

Bother.

Chas

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

When Mike Schmidt had Moldin' Oldies, I sent him my Odyssey cone so that he could try making a reproduction. He said that all of the oddities on the cone made for some spots too thick and others too thin.
I sent some scans off a few years ago, possibly to Gordon? Not sure if anything ever came of that.
If this works, put me down for a couple. :cool:

[Bob Thomas]

I had some scans of the cone and made an attempt to build one. With a balsa forward section - foamsheet detailing and some built up dollhouse hardwood parts for the remaiding sections. It was coming out a little heavy and not very pretty.

I then acquired the cone from an used Odyssey purchase and tried to make a mold of it. Didn't turn out too well. First the mold making compound (can't recall formula) might have contained amonia or some other caustic that ate through the finish and made it even more brittle than its 20 year age did. The cone was very thin to begin with, almost like thin styrene. I abandoned the attempt when the mold created a warped cast.

I still have hopes to someday finish fabricating the cone and re-creating the Rigel 3.

I already redrew the decal so I would be interested in the cone if you are able to make it.

Bob

[jetlag]

Ken,
If you are successful, I'd like a couple myself!
Allen

[sandman]

When Mike Schmidt had Moldin' Oldies, I sent him my Odyssey cone so that he could try making a reproduction. He said that all of the oddities on the cone made for some spots too thick and others too thin.
I sent some scans off a few years ago, possibly to Gordon? Not sure if anything ever came of that.
If this works, put me down for a couple. :cool:

It wasn't me.

I don't think I ever got any scans of that cone.

But I could be wrong.

[Royatl]

I've got two or three of them, and have considered making molds, but would probably do it in sections to avoid the thin wall problem, but it would probably lead to alignment problems in final assembly.

[InFlight]

When Mike Schmidt had Moldin' Oldies, I sent him my Odyssey cone so that he could try making a reproduction. He said that all of the oddities on the cone made for some spots too thick and others too thin.
I sent some scans off a few years ago, possibly to Gordon? Not sure if anything ever came of that.
If this works, put me down for a couple. :cool:
Bill, do you still have that cone?

My rotomold machine only runs at 1 rpm per min with a 360 rotation. The speed is the key here. I could give it a shot, if it works out I can gave you some free bees. :D

Let me know.

.

[Green Dragon]

I've talked with Mike at Moldin Oldies on this one in the past, and was told it was hard to cast.

few comments .

1- if the original is thin or fragile, why not fill with a non expanding foam, or ? resin , to solidify it , sacrifice it,as it were, to make the molds.

2- seems the rotocast technique would work out ok, so look forward to these being made.

3- as for thin and thick spots, I belive everyone would agree, that thick is better - if it needs cast thicker, / heavier, so be iit, we can still get it to fly :)

keep us posted, I'd buy 1 or two meself.

~ AL

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Bill, do you still have that cone?

My rotomold machine only runs at 1 rpm per min with a 360 rotation. The speed is the key here. I could give it a shot, if it works out I can gave you some free bees. :D

Let me know.

.


Yeah, let me know what you want me to do.

[InFlight]

Yeah, let me know what you want me to do.
I sent you a PM.

.

[The_Forgotten]

I've got one (used) that will be going up for auction this weekend for anyone interested. It, like everything I've posted thus farcame from a former rocketeer. I know what I would like to get for the cone, so if anyone would like to purchase it Offline, PM me. :)

[Sirius Rocketry]

I thought that David Miller of Sirius Rocketry had this cone from his Moldin' Oldies line. It is not on the website nor do I have one of his or an original. He is set up to do the resin cones, but someone with an original would have to let him borrow one to make the mold. I had a Rigel 3 a while back. Must have given it away or sold it in one of the many military moves.

Bother.

Chas

That is correct, that is one I do not have. If anyone has one of these they can shoot me, I would love to add it to the Moldin' Oldies line.

[sandman]

If anyone has one I can "borrow" even a repro I'd like to make an upscale of it.

I'll make a CAD drawing of it and send it right back to you.

[blackshire]

I've talked with Mike at Moldin Oldies on this one in the past, and was told it was hard to cast.

few comments .

1- if the original is thin or fragile, why not fill with a non expanding foam, or ? resin , to solidify it , sacrifice it,as it were, to make the molds.

2- seems the rotocast technique would work out ok, so look forward to these being made.

3- as for thin and thick spots, I belive everyone would agree, that thick is better - if it needs cast thicker, / heavier, so be iit, we can still get it to fly :)

keep us posted, I'd buy 1 or two meself.

~ AL

The Odyssey nose cone could also be cast as a solid casting, using micro-bulb filler (also called micro-balloons) mixed with the polyurethane resin to reduce both the weight of the casting and the amount of resin required to produce it.

[Green Dragon]

Any word on these ? anyone tried casting one ? ( or have one to sell ? ;) )

I recieved an Odyssey, less nosecone on my yorf auction lot I purchased ( thanks Travis :) ) here :

note: was going to post link to the listing, but auctions wont let me log in :(

anyways, would be neat to complete this one, with the missing cone :)

any ideas halpful.

~ AL

[Ltvscout]

note: was going to post link to the listing, but auctions wont let me log in :(
Clear the cache in your browser.

[Green Dragon]

Clear the cache in your browser.

Scott,

tried that, again, and it still gives me a 'that user name can not be found '

I have had this happening for ages, actually, but usually if I log into YORF FIRST then click to have the auctions pop-up it worked, hence I bid on Travis' goodies ;).
when I try to log into auctions directly, it has given an error / username not found message for weeks.

not sure what's up . but heads up , lol ...

now back to the " does anyone have news on these cones ? " :D

~ AL

[Sirius Rocketry]

Moldin' Oldies/Sirius Rocketry is looking for that cone too. I would attempt to make that available if I can find a master to play with.

David

[Ltvscout]

Scott,

tried that, again, and it still gives me a 'that user name can not be found '

I have had this happening for ages, actually, but usually if I log into YORF FIRST then click to have the auctions pop-up it worked, hence I bid on Travis' goodies ;).
when I try to log into auctions directly, it has given an error / username not found message for weeks.

not sure what's up . but heads up , lol ...

now back to the " does anyone have news on these cones ? " :D

~ AL
Unfortunately, the developer stopped work on the program. Login with FireFox (or Chrome) or, if already using FireFox login with IE.

[Leo]

Moldin' Oldies/Sirius Rocketry is looking for that cone too. I would attempt to make that available if I can find a master to play with.

David

David,

I've sent some cones to Mike in the past.

Let me know if you need an unused Odyssey cone to try out.

[Sirius Rocketry]

David,

I've sent some cones to Mike in the past.

Let me know if you need an unused Odyssey cone to try out.

Leo,

I would love to try one out. This is the time of year when there is just a bit of time for new mold making. PM me when you have a chance.

David

[sandman]

Leo,

I would love to try one out. This is the time of year when there is just a bit of time for new mold making. PM me when you have a chance.

David

Dave, when you get one finished I'd like one to do some CAD drawings so I can do some upscales of that cone.

[tsai]

As I started this, I figure I should follow up with something.

It's been a hectic season for me, and a change of jobs meant less free time during the transition.

I did manage to create a mold for the cone, but so far, all my attempts to pour have failed. With the number of protrusions and valleys in the cone, all my attempts have so far ended up with thin spots that are too weak, or too much resin creating a way too heavy cone.

I don't have an motorized rotisserie, so that may solve the issue for automated production.

for myself, my next attempt will probably be a thick "paintable" resin on two halves which I can hopefully glue together.

Cheers,
- Ken

[Green Dragon]

As I started this, I figure I should follow up with something.

It's been a hectic season for me, and a change of jobs meant less free time during the transition.

I did manage to create a mold for the cone, but so far, all my attempts to pour have failed. With the number of protrusions and valleys in the cone, all my attempts have so far ended up with thin spots that are too weak, or too much resin creating a way too heavy cone.

I don't have an motorized rotisserie, so that may solve the issue for automated production.

for myself, my next attempt will probably be a thick "paintable" resin on two halves which I can hopefully glue together.

Cheers,
- Ken

Given this is a large, and possibly easily damaged , cone - might do it good to be thicker .

As for heavy - I dont think that matters - I;d take a heavy one :) .

fly on C's or RMS18 if need be, better to have it heavy then the booster to sit forever . lol

let me know if you have a reject to let go, I can fill a thin one with foam, as well - so either is not insurmountable issue to us 'tinkerers' .

~ AL

[rokitflite]

If I were to try to cast a hollow cone like this, I would try a resin that set up in about 10 minutes and add a bunch of micro ballons to it to thicken it up slightly but not add to the weight. Then, like Al said, fill it with 2 part foam.

[blackshire]

*DING!* *DING!* *DING!* WE HAVE A WINNER! That sounds like the best solution. I had suggested the use of micro-balloons (also called micro-bulb filler) to reduce the cast resin nose cone's weight, but reinforcing the (possibly thin in spots) hollow casting with two-part expanding foam would be even better. If the two-part foam is also polyurethane as is the resin, the foam should bond itself strongly to the cast piece.

[sandman]

I got the nose cone today. I'll take measurement and do a 3 view CAD drawing of it tonight then it ships to Sirius.

Man, this thing has more bumps and "things" on it! :o

Not going to be easy to do...but I can do it!

[Leo]

What a joke.

I open up a kit so you guys in the USA can clone the nose cone and now some one without saying anything ships one to Excelsior!

Tommorrow it was to go to the post office.

Well, I'll unpack it and put the cone back where it belongs.

[blackshire]

What a joke.

I open up a kit so you guys in the USA can clone the nose cone and now some one without saying anything ships one to Excelsior!

Tommorrow it was to go to the post office.

Well, I'll unpack it and put the cone back where it belongs.I'm not the one who sent the Odyssey nose cone to Sandman, but I note that your offer to loan yours is dated 18 December 2009, while the thread began back on 22 September 2009. It is possible that whoever sent the cone did so before your posting, but it didn't reach Sandman until this week due to the postal mail slowdown that always occurs around the time of the Christmas holiday.

[sandman]

What a joke.

I open up a kit so you guys in the USA can clone the nose cone and now some one without saying anything ships one to Excelsior!

Tommorrow it was to go to the post office.

Well, I'll unpack it and put the cone back where it belongs.

Leo, I'm sorry. I didn't know you were going to do that.

The cone was going to Sirius and I just thought give it a short stop and my house so I could do a CAD drawing and then send it back in the mail to Sirius so he could make a mold.

I was offered the cone and I said yes.

[tsai]

Sorry, Leo... My bad. I didn't see a follow-up from your offer from mid December, so I went and offered mine to them since I've got my molds done.

- Ken

What a joke.

I open up a kit so you guys in the USA can clone the nose cone and now some one without saying anything ships one to Excelsior!

Tommorrow it was to go to the post office.

Well, I'll unpack it and put the cone back where it belongs.

[sandman]

Sorry, Leo... My bad. I didn't see a follow-up from your offer from mid December, so I went and offered mine to them since I've got my molds done.

- Ken

Honestly I didn't see it either.

[Leo]

OK, new day, new challenges. I'm smiling again :)

Best of luck to Serious Rocketry with the clone. If it works out it'll be a great nose cone for new futuristic designs :)

[sandman]

WOW!! :eek:

What a PIA to draw!

I can't imagine how much work it was without CAD!

I have the basic shape finished now I have to do all the bumps and raised panels.

This is taking longer than I guessed but when I'm finished I can do upscales or downscales of it.

[Bob Thomas]

I took measurements of my cone with only slight differences, probably due to warping. I had also offered my cone and luckily it was not needed - it is too brittle and has a repaired crack anyway.

I had planned to make a three piece component to replace the cone, maybe this can be incorporated into plans for a new turning.

The bumps and other reliefs will be cut from craft foam sheets, once I make a template, that will be glued part as a wrap to the cone and as detaling.

My first attempt bombed and I gave up, but now with renewed interest, and the skills of other YORF artist, I think it will be done.


correction - picture lists part as HTC-55 (no such part at SEMROC) Hollow tube coupler is JT-55 two needed and to be trimmed since only 1.5 inch

[sandman]

OK, now this drawing was freakin' harder than the first one!