Another Excellent Jeffyjeep ebay Auction - Sat V

[cas2047]

I believe Jeffyjeep signed up as a member here... Anyway I was browsing ebay today and saw that he has an Estes 2001 Saturn V auction running and the price is getting up there, $405 when I last looked.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=330326650928

One of these days I'm going to track the actual number of hours it takes me to build a complex kit.

When you consider all of the time and effort that goes into buiding a kit like the Estes 2001 Sat V $405 really isn't all that much. The kit itself costs around $125 or so.

[motley16]

I believe Jeffyjeep signed up as a member here... Anyway I was browsing ebay today and saw that he has an Estes 2001 Saturn V auction running and the price is getting up there, $405 when I last looked.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=330326650928

One of these days I'm going to track the actual number of hours it takes me to build a complex kit.

When you consider all of the time and effort that goes into buiding a kit like the Estes 2001 Sat V $405 really isn't all that much. The kit itself costs around $125 or so.
I can't beleive I am reading this. $405.00 isn't that much? That is a hell of a lot. How much than is a lot? We are talking about a model rocket not an end table. To me this is CRAZY. In this economy where people can't pay for much of anything. The fact is a "perfect" rocket is not worth this kind of price and the bidders are not truely seeing the rocket. Yes it takes time to build a classic rocket but at what price? Bid a painting job on a home people don't want to pay your price. But seem willing to pay anything for a model. I love this hobby but these ebay bids are crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cas2047]

I can't beleive I am reading this. $405.00 isn't that much?

Yeah at first I kind of felt the same way, but if you break it down:

-Kit Cost: $125
-Shipping Cost: $20
-PaintCost: $15 (including white, black, primier)
-Time to build (15-20 hours maybe...???)

So off the top you are out $160 for the kit, paint and shipping.

If you then sold it for $405 minus $160, that leaves $245 for your profit.

-At 15 hours that would come out to $16.33 per hour for your effort
-At 20 hours that would come out to 12.25 per hour for your effort

It doesn't sound all that out of line if you look at it from an hourly wage perspective. Where am I going wrong?


As for things selling in this economy, I see ebay prices for Estes kits higher now than they were before we entered this down economy. Maybe there's a whole new batch of BAR's out there starting up collections.

[Doug Sams]

Regarding building an Estes 2001 Saturn V:
-At 15 hours that would come out to $16.33 per hour for your effort
-At 20 hours that would come out to 12.25 per hour for your effortHeck, I can barely build a 3FNC in 15 hours. I can't imagine doing a decent job on a Saturn V in less that 40+ hours. So you're barely making minimum wage.

The reality is that most buyers are unwilling to pay what it really costs. Furthermore, many builders don't really account for everything and thus don't charge what it really costs them.

Building and selling assembled rockets can only work in a "custom" supply environment (where customers are willing to pay the price). If someone was trying to do this sort of thing in any kind of volume, they would have to find a way to dramatically cut costs, but there has to be a large enough market to justify the investment required to set up an operation, and there's not.

I'm not suggesting anything high tech. Simply stating that if someone hired three of four novice builders and set up some sort of simple operation, they likely could reduce the assembly man-hours significantly, after figuring out a good flow. But I just can't see there being enough of a market (for fully assembled Saturn V's) to make it profitable.

But I do think $405 for a built unit isn't really out of line when the actual costs are considered.

Doug

.

[cas2047]

Heck, I can barely build a 3FNC in 15 hours. I can't imagine doing a decent job on a Saturn V in less that 40+ hours. So you're barely making minimum wage.

I agree Doug. I estimated the hours way on the short side. Far shorter than it would take me to build one that's for sure. I wish I had kept some kind of record of the time I put in when I built mine...

If you based it on 40 hours then you'd be making about $6.12 an hour using the example I laid out.


The reality is that most buyers are unwilling to pay what it really costs. Furthermore, many builders don't really account for everything and thus don't charge what it really costs them.


Agreed.

I figure if someone is building and selling they must, at least partly be doing it because they like to build and they know that someone will be able to appreciate their work. Heck I'm almost at the point where I can't fit too many new builds in the house unless I start utilizing those spaces that there'd be hell to pay for the attempt... ;)

[chanstevens]

Here's one other angle to look at--how many times have you taken on a somewhat complex build, done a decent job, but looked at it and thought "Man, I could sure do better if I had a do-over"? Now what if someone paid you decent money (albeit it maybe $5-10 per hour) for what amounts to a practice model? The way I see it, I'd love to be able to get my mistakes out of the way on a trial run, sell it off for 2-3x the material cost, and apply what I learned into a "keeper" model.

Of course for most of us, it's much less about the money and much more about not having the time to build ONE of something like that, let alone TWO.

I know for those of us that were building Semroc Saturn 1b's last fall, there was a lot of banter along the lines of "D'oh, tried this and didn't work" trying to help each other out. In my case, I was working on something like the 4th and 5th iterations of the same model and still tweaking my techniques. I still haven't built myself one, but when I do, it's sure going to be a beauty...

[Doug Sams]

I figure if someone is building and selling they must, at least partly be doing it because they like to build and they know that someone will be able to appreciate their work. I think that's it. Folks build because they enjoy it, and if they can get a little money for their time, then it's worth it. Another thing to consider is the elasticity of income (to coin a term). Paying yourself at your actual income rate for your discretionary hours assumes someone else is willing to pay you the same rate for those hours. In many cases, the alternative to making 5 bucks an hour in your free time is sitting on your duff making nothing http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/images/smilies/smile.gif So the 5 bucks seems like a good deal http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/images/smilies/smile.gif


Heck I'm almost at the point where I can't fit too many new builds in the house unless I start utilizing those spaces that there'd be hell to pay for the attempt... http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/images/smilies/wink.gifI was using the butler's pantry in the short hall into the dining room. Most of my HPRs and a few large MRs were there. I built a very large cabinet inside a large closet elsewhere in the house hoping to accomodate everything from the butler's pantry (to please my wife) plus have room for more. As it turns out, the new cabinet is already full and I have no space for my grand plans http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/images/smilies/frown.gif So time to build another cabinet http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/images/smilies/frown.gif



Doug

.

[sandman]

Here's one other angle to look at--how many times have you taken on a somewhat complex build, done a decent job, but looked at it and thought "Man, I could sure do better if I had a do-over"? Now what if someone paid you decent money (albeit it maybe $5-10 per hour) for what amounts to a practice model? The way I see it, I'd love to be able to get my mistakes out of the way on a trial run, sell it off for 2-3x the material cost, and apply what I learned into a "keeper" model.

Of course for most of us, it's much less about the money and much more about not having the time to build ONE of something like that, let alone TWO.

I know for those of us that were building Semroc Saturn 1b's last fall, there was a lot of banter along the lines of "D'oh, tried this and didn't work" trying to help each other out. In my case, I was working on something like the 4th and 5th iterations of the same model and still tweaking my techniques. I still haven't built myself one, but when I do, it's sure going to be a beauty...

During the Centenial in 1976 I was in a model railroad club and we were doing a model of the Port Huron train yard from the depot to the St. Clair Tunnel for the local museum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Clair_Tunnel

My job since I lived so far away and couldn't work on the 14' long diorama, was to build the depot.

There were no windows commercially available to match the 84 windows in the depot so I had to build them each one by one with scale lumber. I finished one wall of about 38 windows and something just didn't look right....I got out a magnifying glass and looked closely at the photos I was provided and notice that the name on the depot said "noruH torP"... :confused:

The picture was printed backwards! :eek: So all the windows were on the inside of the wall...%$&@! Along with the embossed brick patterns!

So I rebuilt the windows correctly.

When I finished the second wall I noticed that those windows were better than the first wall so I ripped them out again and did them over AGAIN!!!

Sometimes you just have to say, "Good enough!"

[jetlag]

I believe Jeffyjeep signed up as a member here... Anyway I was browsing ebay today and saw that he has an Estes 2001 Saturn V auction running and the price is getting up there, $405 when I last looked.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=330326650928

One of these days I'm going to track the actual number of hours it takes me to build a complex kit.

When you consider all of the time and effort that goes into buiding a kit like the Estes 2001 Sat V $405 really isn't all that much. The kit itself costs around $125 or so.

I restored a Centuri Saturn V that, when I first got it, looked awful. I spent way more that 20 hours on it; sometimes rebuilds/restorations can take more time than building the kit in question the first time.
Anyway, after I was done, I put it on Ebay. By this time it was gorgeous, and I sold it for nearly $500 to a fellow who was going to put it in a museum, in Houston, I think.
Not bad for a hulk that was given to me by a guy who was just going to throw it away!! :rolleyes:
I love those kinds of rebuilds!
Allen

[cas2047]

Here's one other angle to look at--how many times have you taken on a somewhat complex build, done a decent job, but looked at it and thought "Man, I could sure do better if I had a do-over"? Now what if someone paid you decent money (albeit it maybe $5-10 per hour) for what amounts to a practice model? The way I see it, I'd love to be able to get my mistakes out of the way on a trial run, sell it off for 2-3x the material cost, and apply what I learned into a "keeper" model.


That's another great point. I think in the end it's like Doug said, we build because we enjoy building.

If on top of that you can find a way to get paid to build and in the bargain perfect your building skills at the same time, then the build is that much sweeter.

It's funny but when I said earlier that I never have tracked the number of hours that any build has taken I thought about maybe doing it sometime, but I decided against it. When I'm working on a model I'm not looking to track my time. I lose track of time because I'm enjoying myself. Why mess with that equation. :)

[jeffyjeep]

It's up to $610.00 now. Personally, even I hadn't expected it to go this high. I've thought about the number of hours it took.......probably 20 or so. The SEMROC Saturn 1B was harder (for me anyway) due to the 8 balsa and paper fins and the stick-built LES.

I thank you all for the comments on my Saturn V!

jeffyjeep

[mojo1986]

One more point.............some people just don't have the time, and in some cases the ability, to get a great build and finish on a model of this complexity. But many still want a nice one to display somewhere, and if they can afford it, they're going to bid. I suspect a few of the bidders fall into this category.

Joe

[Rocketflyer]

One more point.............some people just don't have the time, and in some cases the ability, to get a great build and finish on a model of this complexity. But many still want a nice one to display somewhere, and if they can afford it, they're going to bid. I suspect a few of the bidders fall into this category.

Joe

Yeah, and how about the folks who have, and are, getting arthritis in their fingers? There are days when my fingers swell and ache like a toothache. :(

[cas2047]

It's up to $610.00 now. Personally, even I hadn't expected it to go this high. I've thought about the number of hours it took.......probably 20 or so. The SEMROC Saturn 1B was harder (for me anyway) due to the 8 balsa and paper fins and the stick-built LES.

I thank you all for the comments on my Saturn V!

jeffyjeep


Excellent!

It's kind of like being a baseball player I guess, getting paid for doing something you like to do. You just can't bet that! :)

Plus the buyer ends up with something that they wouldn't have been able to create themselves, for one of a thousand different reasons. The free market is a beautiful thing. :)

[Mikus]

As for things selling in this economy, I see ebay prices for Estes kits higher now than they were before we entered this down economy. Maybe there's a whole new batch of BAR's out there starting up collections.

I have noticed this too. I figured I finally had a shot at an X-wing, in fact I had Sandman's until the snipers got me and the final bid was STILL higher than I had ever seen for one. :mad:

Not everybody is hurting in this economy. Which I suppose is a good thing. :rolleyes:

Dern it!

BTW, it's now up to $650 with 49 hours to go. :eek:

[chanstevens]

It's kind of like being a baseball player I guess, getting paid for doing something you like to do. You just can't bet that! :)

Unless you're Pete Rose ;) .

[genimijim]

I believe Jeffyjeep signed up as a member here... Anyway I was browsing ebay today and saw that he has an Estes 2001 Saturn V auction running and the price is getting up there, $405 when I last looked.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=330326650928

One of these days I'm going to track the actual number of hours it takes me to build a complex kit.

When you consider all of the time and effort that goes into buiding a kit like the Estes 2001 Sat V $405 really isn't all that much. The kit itself costs around $125 or so.


I agree with you, he does a great job on the rockets he builds. He's right up there with some of the other's that post photos of their builds on here.

I can't find my Launch magazine with the article on the Saturn 1B and the names of the craftsmen/persons that were involved in building the kits but Jeffyjeep in my opinion should be considered the next time.

Oh yeah, Leo our YORF friend from Deutsche Land should be considered also.


Jim

[jeffyjeep]

Thanks! I'm really flattered!

jeffyjeep

[Rustee]

Wow,I didn't think there was so much interest in a built one,considering the kits seem to be relatively cheap. Of course,there is almost no rocket more impressive than a Saturn V...I've been working on mine again,the repairs to the body are perfect now,just need a tower and to reassemble and paint. I doubt I could find a stock tower,so I'll have to build one or order a Sirius one but that would ruin the originality,but make it more durable. I do have a trick up my sleeve though...the last pic is as I found her hanging from the ceiling of a hobby shop!