NAR Member Survey Results

[Gus]

The NAR just sent out an edition of the Electronic Rocketeer to announce the new FAA regulations. This arrived so quickly after the new regulations were announced that you can apparently now include "Hot Off The Press" regulatory news as an additional NAR membership benefit. This is a huge improvement. Great work, guys!

In the Electronic Rocketeer Trip Barber also provided a link to the NAR Membership Survey Results. (http://rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001FeV8t5geFYtAfXzcd1PJGjzrZhfi2sepQj3CwvHnRrMUMgYjsm3NzCWc7giWhnQUqz5wC0YOsBmffJGZ0AfenYmLX6NojsI1w7V2KBs317jzQoc79tfz2IZ_czd-Q3uBfwFhwkSNJmrg8GUtmwnv2joSueIwChcNnhI_SdgThrw=) Really interesting reading with a number of surprising results (at least to me).

If you haven't read it, it's worth a look.

[Indiana]

The only thing that surprised me was the number of people against going "web only" on sport rocketry. I guess given that most of the membership is over 40 (as am I) it shouldn't be surprising.

What surprised you Gus?

[Mark II]

Mine hasn't arrived yet. :confused: Must have gotten lost in the mail... :rolleyes:

Mark \\.

[tbzep]

The only thing that surprised me was the number of people against going "web only" on sport rocketry. I guess given that most of the membership is over 40 (as am I) it shouldn't be surprising.

What surprised you Gus?

I'm currently only a member for two reasons: The magazine, and to support the struggle against the BATFE. I like having a hard copy of the magazine. :cool:

[tbzep]

Mine hasn't arrived yet. :confused: Must have gotten lost in the mail... :rolleyes:

Mark \\.

Your magazine or the e-zine?

I usually get my magazine later than most who post here and I've had it a couple weeks. :eek:

[Ltvscout]

I'd like to know who over at NAR HQ put this survey together?

I'm a bit peeved that YORF or YORS isn't listed in question 11. This site has been around longer than RP. And no, I'm not knocking RP.

[Ltvscout]

I'd like to know who over at NAR HQ put this survey together?

I'm a bit peeved that YORF or YORS isn't listed in question 11. This site has been around longer than RP. And no, I'm not knocking RP.

Maybe this site got written in by people that chose "Other", but I don't know that since the results don't show what the "Others" were.

[Peartree]

I did not get an "Electronic rocketeer" message either. :confused:

[Ltvscout]

I did not get an "Electronic rocketeer" message either. :confused:
Have at it:

http://www.nar.org/2008/12/electronic_rocketeer_december.php

[Mark II]

Your magazine or the e-zine?

I usually get my magazine later than most who post here and I've had it a couple weeks. :eek:
The e-zine. But I did have to let my membership lapse for a few months earlier this year when I had no money, and I only just renewed in October. I got the impression, though, that the Electronic Rocketeer had just been emailed to the membership (as in, yesterday or today). I haven't seen it in my Inbox yet. Like you, I also got my issue of Sport Rocketry a couple of weeks ago.

Mark \\.

[tbzep]

The e-zine. But I did have to let my membership lapse for a few months earlier this year when I had no money, and I only just renewed in October. I got the impression, though, that the Electronic Rocketeer had just been emailed to the membership (as in, yesterday or today). I haven't seen it in my Inbox yet. Like you, I also got my issue of Sport Rocketry a couple of weeks ago.

Mark \\.

I forgot to do the survey. I dug up the little yellow card from the bottom of the magazine pile after seeing Gus' thread and signed up for the e-zine this afternoon, so I obviously didn't get an email notification either.

[billspad]

I did not get an "Electronic rocketeer" message either. :confused:

Could the two of you who posted that they didn't get the eRocketeer and anyone else please contact the NAR Secretary (georgeatrachorsdotcom) with your email address?

I haven't gotten the last two even though I got the ones before that and the database has an accurate email address for me. George is trying to find the source of the problem.

[GuyNoir]

Folks,

I set up the Constant Contact email service used to deliver the e-Rocketeer shortly before I left office, and have worked to update it prior to each newsletter mailing. I'm in the process of training the NAR Secretary in that process and will shortly turn over maintenance of the list to him.

I have alerted Trip Barber, the NAR President, that email list maintenance is a non-trivial task, between people moving their accounts around, and keystroke errors. Part of our process is to try to review and repair as many of the obvious errors as we can. It will however be an ongoing task to keep the list up to date.

In the meantime, NAR members can go and sign up for the list any time at:

http://www.nar.org/electronic.html

WARNING: The President had given the NAR Secretary clear instructions to restrict access to only valid NAR members, so we clean the list before each mailing. If you are not a valid NAR member on file at NAR HQ, your name will be removed from the list.

[Gus]

Bunny,

Thanks again for the effort you put into this. Getting such timely feedback on regulatory changes is a major benefit to the members who aren't regularly patrolling these forums (most of the members I suppose).

[Royatl]

The only thing that surprised me was the number of people against going "web only" on sport rocketry. I guess given that most of the membership is over 40 (as am I) it shouldn't be surprising.

What surprised you Gus?

I dunno, I prefer the semi-permanence of much printed matter (i do have a library subscription to Safari[1], though, since collecting $50 computer books is *so* 1995).




[1] safari.oreilly.com

[Rocketflyer]

I'd like to know who over at NAR HQ put this survey together?

I'm a bit peeved that YORF or YORS isn't listed in question 11. This site has been around longer than RP. And no, I'm not knocking RP.

Scott, I too was surprised. When I filled out the questionaire, I made sure to list YORF!

[Rocketflyer]

I'd like to know who over at NAR HQ put this survey together?

I'm a bit peeved that YORF or YORS isn't listed in question 11. This site has been around longer than RP. And no, I'm not knocking RP.


Trip and company, I believe. Also, if I'm not mistaking, some of it was being worked on at NARAM 50. It wasn't too long after the NARAM that the quetionaire came out.

What I'm surprised at was the lack of the comments being shown, as well as so many folks "skipped" a question. Does this mean that they had no interest at all? Is it because they are just wrapped up in only what they do, that their association with the NAR is just that? What, no informed opinions? :confused: I thought about each question, and I answered. I didn't skip.

I like the magazine!!!

[barone]

The only thing that surprised me was the number of people against going "web only" on sport rocketry. I guess given that most of the membership is over 40 (as am I) it shouldn't be surprising.

What surprised you Gus?
Well, I don't have a laptop and my desktop is too big to routinely take to the throne room.. :eek:

[Rocketflyer]

Well, [snip] my desktop is too big to routinely take to the throne room.. :eek:


Ahhh, Don. You were "thinking" again?? :chuckle: [ Recalls sculpture of the "THINKER"] :D

Hey, just read the post where you sold your tower. You're a good man. Hope to shake your hand some day soon.

[Peartree]

I have degree in electrical engineering and I've been at home in front of a computer since the high school got its first Apple 2e's but I still prefer paper for ads and for reading longer written things. I have unsubscribed to several sales flyers for stores we frequent just because I received them for several years and never read them (of course when we had dial-up it took for-EVER) so I went back to getting paper that I can leaf through, circle what I want, dogear the pages and if I see something I REALLY like, I can tear it out and leave it as a hint for my wife. When I'm done with it, it gets recycled.

My wife and I have old data that is no longer retrievable because a) our computer no longer has a floppy drive (or an 8 inch floppy drive that I unearthed from a college project) and b) no existing programs can probably read them anymore anyway. On the other hand, I have Bible commentaries that my Dad gave me that were printed well before the second world war and they still work just fine.

Paper has some advantages that technology has not yet overcome. :D

[Peartree]

Could the two of you who posted that they didn't get the eRocketeer and anyone else please contact the NAR Secretary (georgeatrachorsdotcom) with your email address?

I haven't gotten the last two even though I got the ones before that and the database has an accurate email address for me. George is trying to find the source of the problem.


Email sent.

[barone]

Ahhh, Don. You were "thinking" again?? :chuckle: [ Recalls sculpture of the "THINKER"] :D
Jack....you're so kind for not referring to "the stinker"......... :D

[kurtschachner]

Ahhh, Don. You were "thinking" again?? :chuckle: [ Recalls sculpture of the "THINKER"] :D

Hey, just read the post where you sold your tower. You're a good man. Hope to shake your hand some day soon.

But ONLY if he washes his hands first.

[Mark II]

I have degree in electrical engineering and I've been at home in front of a computer since the high school got its first Apple 2e's but I still prefer paper for ads and for reading longer written things. I have unsubscribed to several sales flyers for stores we frequent just because I received them for several years and never read them (of course when we had dial-up it took for-EVER) so I went back to getting paper that I can leaf through, circle what I want, dogear the pages and if I see something I REALLY like, I can tear it out and leave it as a hint for my wife. When I'm done with it, it gets recycled.

My wife and I have old data that is no longer retrievable because a) our computer no longer has a floppy drive (or an 8 inch floppy drive that I unearthed from a college project) and b) no existing programs can probably read them anymore anyway. On the other hand, I have Bible commentaries that my Dad gave me that were printed well before the second world war and they still work just fine.

Paper has some advantages that technology has not yet overcome. :D
Huh?!? You mean the data that I stored on that cassette tape back in 1982 that I have had stored in my basement all these years may not be retrievable? :eek:

Ah, but surely all of my text files stored on my Atari 800XL SSFD disks are safe, right?... right? :confused:

Mark \\.

[Mark II]

Oh, and even if I can't find my copy of SpeedWrite, there have got to be conversion utilities for that file format, right? :eek:

I mean, why wouldn't there be? :(

......

I am so hosed... :(




( :D :chuckle: :D :chuckle: )

Mark \\.

[Indiana]

I think the most reliable method of data retention is still the stone tablet. If you have some information you'd like to keep for a while print it out. If you have something you want to pass on to the post-human culture that emerges after the impending combined tragedies of global warming, over-population induced famine and disease, financial melt-down, fundamentalist terror attacks, fire, flooding, rapture, new world order and gingivitis, then you better get out the hammer and chisel. :)

[SecretSquirrel]

I'd like to know who over at NAR HQ put this survey together?

I'm a bit peeved that YORF or YORS isn't listed in question 11. This site has been around longer than RP. And no, I'm not knocking RP.

I don't know who put the survey together but I have 2 comments.

First, YORF seems to be more rooted in classic rockets, maybe they were looking at sites that were more general and less specific.

Second, I've seen lots of vendor polls and my company is never listed in the poll question, so I understand your feelings. Just carry on, it's all you can really do. Try not to sweat it too much.

[Ltvscout]

I don't know who put the survey together but I have 2 comments.

First, YORF seems to be more rooted in classic rockets, maybe they were looking at sites that were more general and less specific.

Second, I've seen lots of vendor polls and my company is never listed in the poll question, so I understand your feelings. Just carry on, it's all you can really do. Try not to sweat it too much.
Nah, I won't. I had a hair up my butt the night I posted that. I was going to delete the post but someone had already replied to it, so I left it.

You're probably right about the fact that it was due to YORF being geared more towards a specific area of MR vs a broad application like TRF.

[tbzep]

Nah, I won't. I had a hair up my butt the night I posted that. I was going to delete the post but someone had already replied to it, so I left it.

You're probably right about the fact that it was due to YORF being geared more towards a specific area of MR vs a broad application like TRF.

That's likely the case. However, outside of TRF, there is much more general LPR talk here than on RP, RO, or N3....maybe a handful of posts per week between the three of them. Seems like the NAR would recognize this, especially considering we use the same modern motors as those who only build modern LPR kits. :rolleyes:

[rocketguy101]

Try not to sweat it too much.

"Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things" -- ??George Carlin I think??

[Bob Kaplow]

I think the most reliable method of data retention is still the stone tablet. If you have some information you'd like to keep for a while print it out. If you have something you want to pass on to the post-human culture that emerges after the impending combined tragedies of global warming, over-population induced famine and disease, financial melt-down, fundamentalist terror attacks, fire, flooding, rapture, new world order and gingivitis, then you better get out the hammer and chisel. :)

If you really want something to stick around for generations, wrap it up in religious tradition.

I always liked Will Safford's comment on our hobby as a religion: "The Church of the Holy Shit!"

[SCE to AUX]

If you really want something to stick around for generations, wrap it up in religious tradition.


Just be prepared for it to survive in several different, contradictory variations, with different camps willing to kill each other to prove that their interpretation is the correct one.... :rolleyes:

[SecretSquirrel]

Just be prepared for it to survive in several different, contradictory variations, with different camps willing to kill each other to prove that their interpretation is the correct one.... :rolleyes:


That pretty much describes hobby rocketry.
;)

[luke strawwalker]

I'm currently only a member for two reasons: The magazine, and to support the struggle against the BATFE. I like having a hard copy of the magazine. :cool:

I agree with you, tbzep.... My daughter is a member so we can get the magazine... everything else is just fluff IMHO...

Back when I graduated high school (and shortly thereafter couldn't afford rocketry anymore) you could subscribe to the magazine without being a NAR member. I personally think they should reinstate that. Also, at the time, the insurance was voluntary and you mailed in a $26 check and the form to get the NAR insurance. Now with insurance being mandatory, it has pushed the price of membership up to $60 for old timers like me. That's just too much money for what I get out of it. I really only want the magazine, since I'm not a HPR flier and not interested in becoming one, and I fly off my own farm and don't need the insurance (and I provide my farm for a club field so the section insurance covers our launches out here anyway when the club is out here) and while I support the idea of trying legally to make BATFE do the right thing, it's going to be an uphill and quite frankly probably hopeless battle that is terribly expensive and will probably ultimately prove pointless.

While making the insurance mandatory "lowers costs for everybody" by making it up in volume, it increases my costs since I'm being forced to purchase something I don't need... much the same way as mandatory car insurance subsidizes drunk drivers at my expense... I don't fly in contests, not really interested and never have been, so I don't need a NAR number for that. So, other than the magazine, and the occassional NARTS purchase, I don't have much need for NAR membership, especially not for $60 a year!

Frankly, I wouldn't be a NAR member due to the high dues. I was in high school during the late 80's, but the dues were a lot more reasonable then. Thankfully I signed up my daughter, so we get the magazine and SHE's a NAR member, but honestly that $60 is probably close to 25% of my hobby budget for the entire year, and I don't see 'wasting' it on NAR membership just for the magazine and mandatory insurance I don't need.

That's my opinion, anyway... OL JR :)

[luke strawwalker]

I don't know who put the survey together but I have 2 comments.

First, YORF seems to be more rooted in classic rockets, maybe they were looking at sites that were more general and less specific.

Second, I've seen lots of vendor polls and my company is never listed in the poll question, so I understand your feelings. Just carry on, it's all you can really do. Try not to sweat it too much.

YOU have a rocket company, Don?? :eek: :eek: :rolleyes: :p

(tongue removed from cheek :chuckle: )

Yall have a good one! OL JR :) :D :D

[Peartree]

I agree with you, tbzep.... My daughter is a member so we can get the magazine... everything else is just fluff IMHO...

Frankly, I wouldn't be a NAR member due to the high dues. I was in high school during the late 80's, but the dues were a lot more reasonable then. Thankfully I signed up my daughter, so we get the magazine and SHE's a NAR member, but honestly that $60 is probably close to 25% of my hobby budget for the entire year, and I don't see 'wasting' it on NAR membership just for the magazine and mandatory insurance I don't need.

That's my opinion, anyway... OL JR :)


I see your point, but I'm in a different place. Like you, my membership consumes a sizable chunk of my rocketry budget. I enjoy the magazine and I've attempted to participate in one or two contests but it was the insurance that really motivated me to join.

I work with Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts and occasionally neighborhood kids and church groups and I have been trying to get a couple local schools to start TARC groups as well. It is worth the peace of mind as well as making it easier to work with some of these groups when you can assure them that we already have insurance that will cover them, as long as we follow a few simple safety rules.

I agree however that the magazine ought to be available as a seperate subscription. First, I think that it would provide a service to folks like you who have been a part of the hobby and who wish to remain connected. Second, I think that it would provide a valuable link to get new prople interested in rocketry. If someone were somewhat intereseted after receiving (or buying) a launch set for Christmas, they might also be persuaded to sunscribe to the magazine if the price was reasonable ($20-30). Once more people get the magazine and see all the fun stuff that happens and (hopefully) notice that there are clubs and launches sheduled near them, it is a small step to get them to visit a launch and become more involved, etc. A low cost subscription might also make it more feasable for members to buy a subscription for their local libraries (or to convince the libraries to buy them) or for the local scout troop or science teacher, etc.

I think the magazine could be one of our best tools for growing the hobby instead of making it available on a "members only" basis.

[SecretSquirrel]

YOU have a rocket company, Don?? :eek: :eek: :rolleyes: :p




Shhhhhh, don't tell anyone

[kurtschachner]

If someone were somewhat intereseted after receiving (or buying) a launch set for Christmas, they might also be persuaded to sunscribe to the magazine if the price was reasonable ($20-30). Once more people get the magazine and see all the fun stuff that happens and (hopefully) notice that there are clubs and launches sheduled near them, it is a small step to get them to visit a launch and become more involved, etc.

All of that is true but it still doesn't indicate what would drive them to be a member. Most local clubs have low-cost membership dues, and most don't require you to be a NAR member. Our club meeting location sells SpR on the newsstand, so unless you are into HPR or contest flying just why would you be a member of the NAR?

[Peartree]

All of that is true but it still doesn't indicate what would drive them to be a member. Most local clubs have low-cost membership dues, and most don't require you to be a NAR member. Our club meeting location sells SpR on the newsstand, so unless you are into HPR or contest flying just why would you be a member of the NAR?

I don't know that any of this would drive people to be members of the NAR. People are drawn to membership for the reasons that you mentioned, they want to fly contests, want to pursue HPR flying, they want the insurance, or they just want to be a part of a national organization for their own personal reasons. I don't know that separating out the magazine subscription would change that, but I do see it as a win-win option. I think a separate magazine subscription would help to attract more people to the hobby in general and keep them more active and involved longer. At the same time, if a modest profit was to be made on each subscription, the increased revenue from non-members would subsidize member services and thereby reduce costs to members.

[Jeff Walther]

Just be prepared for it to survive in several different, contradictory variations, with different camps willing to kill each other to prove that their interpretation is the correct one.... :rolleyes:

See Lister's laundry list on "Red Dwarf" for example.

[joecool]

That's likely the case. However, outside of TRF, there is much more general LPR talk here than on RP, RO, or N3....maybe a handful of posts per week between the three of them. Seems like the NAR would recognize this, especially considering we use the same modern motors as those who only build modern LPR kits. :rolleyes:

What's N3 and RO?

[DaveR]

What's N3 and RO?
N3 = Newton's Third Rocketry
http://www.newtons3rdrocketry.com/

RO = Rocketry Online
http://www.rocketryonline.com/

[Night Tripper]

I just joined NAR for the first time, last month. Up until then, I had been pickin' up my copies of Sport Rocketry at Books A Million. They've got magazines for every interest. Anyway, I thought the dues were kinda steep. I'll know by next november if it is worth it or not.

As far as the magazine is concerned...I'm over 40 and I prefer a printed version. I find it far more satisfying to have paper in my hands. My preference may be born more out of nostalgia than anything, but that's just me.

[o1d_dude]

Been buying my copies of Sport Rocketry at the local hobby house and I prefer the printed copies as well. I don't have a laptop but if I did, I doubt Mrs. OD would tolerate me laying in bed at night randomly clicking for the next page. Nope, it's the actual magazine for me.

[dwmzmm]

Maybe it's just me, but the Sport Rocket magazine makes the price of the NAR membership well worth it. Each issue arrives on the dot, and has excellent articles and color pictures. And we're (assuming all of us are into this together) still waiting on the November/December issue of LAUNCH..... :(

[Night Tripper]

The November/December issue has not yet arrived? With me being a very recent arrival to NAR, I wasn't expecting my first copy until the Jan/Feb isssue. I did, however, notice it's late arrival at the newsstand. It was almost Christmas before I found a copy at Books A Million.

And you're right. Sport Rocketry does make the membership more valuable. At a $4.95 cover price, that's half the annual membership right there. So, in a way, I had been paying "dues" (over thirty bucks a year) before I ever joined NAR.

[micromeister]

I don't really know what "draws" people to join the NAR. I've been a member for as long as I can remember. I don't agree 100% with everything the NAR does. I'm Not into HPR nor do I fly much competition anymore. but even back before I was aware of the local Model Rocket Clubs (NAR Sections) I Always found the Mag and insurance made the Membership Dews well worth the price. I'm NOT really all that happy with the current HIGH price of membership but after a lit of thought reason it's more to do with covering EVERONE with a million dollars of insruance and publishing a first rate magazine that make it worth it.

As far as making the mag on-line. I surely voted NO WAY!!! As many have aready mentioned Stone tablets are the best, but Hard Copies are by far the Second best! My Model Rocketeer, Sport Rocketry library is a constant source of info and inspiration even today. I look back at many of the things we were doing back in the 60 & 70 that are just as involved and interesting as any of the junk being done today.
I have a bunch of data on tape that is totally worthless today as there are no longer machines to run or programs to read it. Turely a shame but that's just a lesson learned.

[Initiator001]

Maybe it's just me, but the Sport Rocket magazine makes the price of the NAR membership well worth it. Each issue arrives on the dot, and has excellent articles and color pictures.

I agree.

My issue of Sport Rocketry arrives within one week (Or less) of the mailing date listed in the magazine.

Of course, I pay extra for 1st class postage. ;)

Bob

[JRThro]

Huh?!? You mean the data that I stored on that cassette tape back in 1982 that I have had stored in my basement all these years may not be retrievable? :eek:

Ah, but surely all of my text files stored on my Atari 800XL SSFD disks are safe, right?... right? :confused:

Mark \\.
They're perfectly safe, they just aren't retrievable.
:)

[mycrofte]

Hey! Don't laugh to hard. I actually pulled an Atari 800XL out of the closet once for a guy that had started a novel on 5.25" disks. He had no way to read them to start writing again. At least I got $10 out of it!

Believe it or not, the story line seemed REAL familiar when Sylvester Stallone's "Demolition Man" came out...

[Jeff Walther]

I have a bunch of data on tape that is totally worthless today as there are no longer machines to run or programs to read it. Turely a shame but that's just a lesson learned.

Have you considered joining the Classic Computer email list? Chances are that there is someone on that list who can read your old data. It may not be worth the time and expense to you, but that's a different problem from no compatible machine existing.