Gettin' Back in The Game

[Velocity]

Thanks to 3 of my teen nephews, it looks like I'm going back into model rocketry, which I kind of abandoned back in the 1970s. These kids are pretty wild and unfocused, and I know of only a few hobbies that can offer them a chance to focus, think, and actually produce something that looks spectacular and extreme...and one of those hobbies is model rocketry.

I thought I'd start them out with basic ready-to-fly kits from Estes, let them get the fever, then entice them with larger and larger build-up kits -- after all, it's the BIG rockets that get you really hooked. I mean, when I was a kid, I thought the RTF models were cool, but I didn't become a real rocketeer until I had built up a few large models, launched them, crashed them, rebuilt them, and took them back to the launch pad for another try.

Got a question here... A few things have changed in model rocketry since my day, so I need to ask. Will a 3/16" launch rod fit in one of the older Estes Porta-Pads? I mean, one of the old 1/8" PortaPads. As I recall, the rod was just held in place with a plastic-disk clamp and wingnut, in which case the 3/16" SHOULD work just fine. Need to know before I order supplies.

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Thanks to 3 of my teen nephews, it looks like I'm going back into model rocketry, which I kind of abandoned back in the 1970s. These kids are pretty wild and unfocused, and I know of only a few hobbies that can offer them a chance to focus, think, and actually produce something that looks spectacular and extreme...and one of those hobbies is model rocketry.

Having been one of the wild, unfocused types, I can say that you're on the right track. I'm now a wild, unfocused adult, but I have a life and a hobby. ;)

I thought I'd start them out with basic ready-to-fly kits from Estes, let them get the fever, then entice them with larger and larger build-up kits -- after all, it's the BIG rockets that get you really hooked. I mean, when I was a kid, I thought the RTF models were cool, but I didn't become a real rocketeer until I had built up a few large models, launched them, crashed them, rebuilt them, and took them back to the launch pad for another try.

Nah, the Estes RTF stuff is really crap. Give a look here: http://www.semroc.com/Store/Scripts/default.asp :cool:
Semroc is as cool as Estes used to be. (And Centuri, for that matter.) Once they're ready to move up, there are TONS of cool kits out there from TONS of vendors who aren't glorified toy shills.

[CPMcGraw]

Thanks to 3 of my teen nephews, it looks like I'm going back into model rocketry, which I kind of abandoned back in the 1970s.

Welcome back to the world of rocketry, Velocity! And welcome to our asylum, too!

I thought I'd start them out with basic ready-to-fly kits from Estes, let them get the fever, then entice them with larger and larger build-up kits...

Who's got the fever? :D

You might want to read THIS... (http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=36063&postcount=4)

Got a question here... A few things have changed in model rocketry since my day, so I need to ask. Will a 3/16" launch rod fit in one of the older Estes Porta-Pads? I mean, one of the old 1/8" PortaPads. As I recall, the rod was just held in place with a plastic-disk clamp and wingnut, in which case the 3/16" SHOULD work just fine. Need to know before I order supplies.

The 3/16" rod was also known as the "Maxi-Rod". Those older pads should have the same mechanism (wing nut, two plastic disk halves, washers, etc) as all of the newer pads. But, fortunately, replacing a pad is as easy as picking up another starter set these days; and you get an Electron Beam controller to go with it. Always handy to have spares!

One improvement you should make to any launch pad: Change that rod to a single, straight piece of music wire instead of that two-piece aluminum thing all the pads came with. You can get 1/8" and 3/16" music wire, 36" long, from the hobby shop; 48" x 3/16" can be found at Lowes and Home Depot.

[Velocity]

Nah, the Estes RTF stuff is really crap.... Semroc is as cool as Estes used to be. (And Centuri, for that matter.) Once they're ready to move up, there are TONS of cool kits out there from TONS of vendors who aren't glorified toy shills.


Well, there you go, I came to the right place. Are you saying that Estes has gone Disney on us? I've been out of the loop for a few decades, and I figured there'd be a radically different rocket market. I had hoped to introduce these boys to the Estes X-15 and Bandit RTF kits, but I was hoping for too much. The X-15 taken out of production? For safety reasons? God Almighty, I knew, even back in the 1970s, that you don't run to catch an X-15 when its parachute fails to deploy. Who does that? Sheesh.

But the Semroc site looks cool, I'll root around over there, also, as I get back up to speed. Thanky

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

Well, there you go, I came to the right place. Are you saying that Estes has gone Disney on us? I've been out of the loop for a few decades, and I figured there'd be a radically different rocket market. I had hoped to introduce these boys to the Estes X-15 and Bandit RTF kits, but I was hoping for too much. The X-15 taken out of production? For safety reasons? God Almighty, I knew, even back in the 1970s, that you don't run to catch an X-15 when its parachute fails to deploy. Who does that? Sheesh.

But the Semroc site looks cool, I'll root around over there, also, as I get back up to speed. Thanky

Semroc isn't the only game in town, just one of my favorites. That thread that Craig linked to also has some killer vendors that you'll be glad you investigated. I'm not sure if he included this one http://www.rocketreviews.com/, so consider it recommended. :cool:

[Velocity]

One improvement you should make to any launch pad: Change that rod to a single, straight piece of music wire...

Oh, yeah, I remember that -- although, you know, in all the time I flew rockets way back when, I never saw a rocket (of mine) get snagged on a two-piece rod. I mean, I can see how it might happen, but it didn't happen to me. Of course, I used a slick epoxy glaze to coat everything, including the launch guides, so my rockets were a little more durable that your standard kit. I believe that helped me beat the two-piece snag.

[STRMan]

Welcome back to the hobby.

Instead of an Estes RTF, maybe you should try to pick up a Quest Quick kit, like the EZ Payloader (http://www.questaerospace.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=1604&eq=&Tp=) I recently built. If you got that and an Estes Astrobeam (http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/est/est1417.htm) starter kit (That has about the same amount of assembly) you would be good to go!

That's one rocket for each to build, along with a brand new launch pad and controller.

I also give another thumbs up to Semroc. You can read this thread (http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=3002) I just posted to get an idea of the kind of outfit they are.

[dwmzmm]

Welcome back, Velocity! One other thing to do while you're re-entering; don't forget to
check in your closets/attics, as maybe you'll find a treasure trove of the stuff you had years
ago. Maybe you'll find vintage kits (both built and unassembled) along with launch pads,
old catalogs, MRN's, etc., that is probably worth lots of $$$ these days.

I'm also a BAR, having returned to model rocketry and the NAR in late 2003 after a 21 +
year "layoff."

[Velocity]

Well, I actually did end up buying Quest, because they still have an X-15. And it was important that I have one of those.

See, my 3 nephews are really good boys, but they're right on the verge of teen rebellion -- I can see it coming like an atom bomb, even if their mom can't see it. So, last weekend when they were down here, they were jabbering about their trip to the Smithsonian Air & Space Museum, and I saw an opportunity to inject some rocketry into the conversation. Got them talking about the design of the X-1, and then the X-15, and the SR-71, and they were really getting interested in seeing some of those birds fly, right?

So, when they come down here this week, I'll have a line-up of experimental rocket and spy planes for them, including the X-15 and SR-71, as well as a couple of launch pads and ignition systems. Just the basic stuff at first to get their feet wet. But the old X-15 is one of the best rocket-baits, I think, if you're trying to catch a kid's interest.

:D

[Velocity]

maybe you'll find a treasure trove of the stuff you had years
ago.... worth lots of $$$ these days.

That would be nice, but we're talking about 30 years ago and a thousand miles away. I'm from East Texas, originally, grew up on a ranch north of Houston, lived for a time right across the channel from Ellington Airforce Base, so I got to see some of the wildest birds in my childhood. And, of course, I was just a hop and a skip from the Johnson Space Center, which I toured many times. That was the inspiration for me to build all manner of experimental rockets and rocket planes and missiles blow them up over the old high school campus.

But now I'm living on the East Coast, in the mountains of North Carolina, and I'll be basically starting from scratch. It's good that I have the nephews here -- like having six extra hands with which to glue and sand and bevel and paint these roman candles to exacting specifications (my specifications) before they come plummeting back to earth with singed and unopened parachutes. Yeah, baby. It still makes the blood rise. :cool:

[Royatl]

Well, there you go, I came to the right place. Are you saying that Estes has gone Disney on us? I've been out of the loop for a few decades, and I figured there'd be a radically different rocket market. I had hoped to introduce these boys to the Estes X-15 and Bandit RTF kits, but I was hoping for too much. The X-15 taken out of production? For safety reasons? God Almighty, I knew, even back in the 1970s, that you don't run to catch an X-15 when its parachute fails to deploy. Who does that? Sheesh.

But the Semroc site looks cool, I'll root around over there, also, as I get back up to speed. Thanky

The X-15 that was just recalled isn't the old Firing Line X-15 that you remember, but a larger version that was designed by Cox back in 1970. Estes bought Cox about 10 years ago.

Estes did re-release a couple of the Firing Line models: the X-15 back in 1990 or so, and the Vampire 10 years ago (as a purple rocket called the Jinx), but they were both on the market only a short time.

The current Estes RTF's aren't that bad. They just aren't that imaginative -- they keep introducing the same rocket, but with different colors and different names. They are a bit bigger: 1.3" dia x 18" long versus the 1" x 12" starter rockets of the 70's.

Target currently sells a decent starter set with one such RTF and a "bonus" traditional model rocket kit. I think WalMart sells the same set, but with different names and colors.

You can still get the Alpha III Almost-RTF set from hobby shops and some WalMarts.

As for what Estes has become... about 20 years ago they got separated from Damon in a leveraged buy-out. The investment bank installed a former Hasbro exec as the CEO, and a few years ago he bought the company from the bank.

[lessgravity]

But now I'm living on the East Coast, in the mountains of North Carolina, and I'll be basically starting from scratch.

Where at in NC. How far from Charlotte. There is a great club in Charlotte. ROCC has monthly launches that are a great way to spend a weekend. We broke a club record last week with 145 launches in 3 hours. We have up to 24 LP pads and many mid and high power. You'll see everything from MMX and 1/2 As to K's lauched there. PM me if you need further info.

[Intruder]

Hey, you might like to check out Uncle Mikes (http://www.unclemikesrocketshack.com/). They have a pretty wide variety of kits and vendors.

[Velocity]

The current Estes RTF's aren't that bad. They just aren't that imaginative

Sad to hear. I used to be a solid Estes customer in the 1970s. The loss of imagination and drive is a sign of a company just coasting or on the downhill. So I take it the current Estes CEO is not exactly a hands-on rocketry enthusiast? Ahh, snap.

[Royatl]

Sad to hear. I used to be a solid Estes customer in the 1970s. The loss of imagination and drive is a sign of a company just coasting or on the downhill. So I take it the current Estes CEO is not exactly a hands-on rocketry enthusiast? Ahh, snap.

There's a quote or two from him in the early 90's to the effect that he admits knowing nothing about the hobby when he started at Estes (he was the marketing guy behind Coleco Adam and he ran the Cabbage Patch Doll line). There's two or three fairly recent ex-employees lurking around here who can probably tell you whether he eventually drank the kool-aid or not.

Estes actually runs hot and cold. They do some cool stuff, then they do some dumb stuff.
As with a lot of industries these days, it seems like WalMart actually runs the show.

[Velocity]

Where at in NC. How far from Charlotte. There is a great club in Charlotte. .

I'm in Kings Mountain, about 40 miles west of Charlotte on I-85. I avoid going into the city if I can -- at 80 miles round-trip, it's a monster on my gasoline consumption.

However, I would like more info on the Charlotte group. I'm not ready for a membership yet, but if I can get these boys hooked on it, I'll pay for their membership in the not-too-distant future.

:D

[lessgravity]

The launch site is actually in the Kannapolis area. I don't know if there is an alternate root that you can take that may allow you to avoid Charlotte all together. I actually live in Durham so it's a 3 hour drive for me but totally worth it. Great bunch of guys. Its fun just to come to the launch site and watch. The official website is ROCC (http://www.rocketrycarolina.org/)

We also have a discussion site on Our Planet.

There is a makeup launch scheduled for this Saturday but it's a one day launch - 10am-7pm
I don't expect it to be as heavily attended but you are welcome to come. See the website for directions etc. You do not have to join the club to launch there.

[Rocket Doctor]

There's a quote or two from him in the early 90's to the effect that he admits knowing nothing about the hobby when he started at Estes (he was the marketing guy behind Coleco Adam and he ran the Cabbage Patch Doll line). There's two or three fairly recent ex-employees lurking around here who can probably tell you whether he eventually drank the kool-aid or not.

Estes actually runs hot and cold. They do some cool stuff, then they do some dumb stuff.
As with a lot of industries these days, it seems like WalMart actually runs the show.

The current management of Estes doesn't want to listen to thier loyal ucstomers, believe me on this one.

On April 21,2008, it will be a year since the Estes forum was pulled down by management, the intent of the forum was to solve problems and listen to it's customers. Too little too late.

It will be interesting to see what will be in the 2008 catalog, slated to be released at the end of April.

And, the current CEO has not built a rocket, as has other former members of that team, a few since gone (VP sales and marketing)

They also had a sales rep out of NYC who NEVER built a rocket in his life, and, this is who is promoting the products???????? (NOTE He is no longer associated with the company as well)

[Rocketflyer]

The current management of Estes doesn't want to listen to thier loyal ucstomers, believe me on this one.

On April 21,2008, it will be a year since the Estes forum was pulled down by management, the intent of the forum was to solve problems and listen to it's customers. Too little too late.

It will be interesting to see what will be in the 2008 catalog, slated to be released at the end of April.

And, the current CEO has not built a rocket, as has other former members of that team, a few since gone (VP sales and marketing)

They also had a sales rep out of NYC who NEVER built a rocket in his life, and, this is who is promoting the products???????? (NOTE He is no longer associated with the company as well)

It is really a shame. Estes along with Centuri, et al, had some great kits. I hope they don't go the way of Radio Shack :rolleyes: We do have some terrific companies now that fill the needs of rocketeers. I'd just as soon as patronize them first. What we do need is some more 18mm and 13mm motors, both BP and composite, yes?

[ghrocketman]

Hasbro is where that bozo in charge of Estes is from ?
That explains a LOT to me as to why the company is in the dumper...
No wonder I can't stand their stuff....I HATED those plastic Hasbro toys when I was a kid.....
I'd bet Vern Estes cringes at every STUPID decision that is made by the buffoons in charge of the company that has his namesake.

I sure hope someday we get a company that can supply us with SU BP 13, 18, and 24mm engines with some real variety at a realistic price.
Quest has neither given us any real variety (actually freakin' LESS than Estes ?) nor do they have competitive pricing...they don't seem interested in what we want either.
If that day comes, Estes will get absolutely ZERO percent of my SU engine dollars from that day forward !

[Rocket Doctor]

Hasbro is where that bozo in charge of Estes is from ?
That explains a LOT to me as to why the company is in the dumper...
No wonder I can't stand their stuff....I HATED those plastic Hasbro toys when I was a kid.....
I'd bet Vern Estes cringes at every STUPID decision that is made by the buffoons in charge of the company that has his namesake.

I sure hope someday we get a company that can supply us with SU BP 13, 18, and 24mm engines with some real variety at a realistic price.
Quest has neither given us any real variety (actually freakin' LESS than Estes ?) nor do they have competitive pricing...they don't seem interested in what we want either.
If that day comes, Estes will get absolutely ZERO percent of my SU engine dollars from that day forward !

He was the marketing manager for the Cabbage Patch Dolls, then mgr of Estes and then owner.

I tried to make changes to no avail............Estes Forum RIP 4/21/07

[russamys]

I have recently bought some Estes kits to get back into the hobby, but overall it sounds like many are giving less than favorable reviews of them. The only other kits I have found locally are Quest, and based upon what I see through the packaging, they look to be no different from Estes.

From an A-E rocket standpoint, can anyone give me some recommendations on other manufactuers with good products? Thanks.

Russ

[Royatl]

Well Russ,
You've come to the right place. We have, in our midst, one of the finest, if not the finest, kit manufacturers right here in this forum. Go to www.semroc.com and order just about any thing. Or do the same thing at www.fliskits.com. There's a few others as well, but those two will get you going.

I wouldn't totally dismiss Estes or Quest, either. In the past year Estes has re-introduced the Interceptor, Der Red Max, and has made a few other innovative rockets to counter their "phone it in" designs.

Quest is in the middle of a long transition period, and hasn't fully realized itself yet, so don't count them out just yet.

("typing" this on my iPhone after two margaritas. Pretty good, huh?)

[barone]

I have recently bought some Estes kits to get back into the hobby, but overall it sounds like many are giving less than favorable reviews of them. The only other kits I have found locally are Quest, and based upon what I see through the packaging, they look to be no different from Estes.

From an A-E rocket standpoint, can anyone give me some recommendations on other manufactuers with good products? Thanks.

Russ
Dittos to Roy's comments. Additionally, check out some of the on line vendors for Quest products. Some of their better products won't be seen in a hobby shop (who know's why). Check out their Force 5.

[russamys]

Thanks for the information. I will check out both sites.

Russ