Estes Old-Style Engine Hook

[SatelliteInterceptor]

I know that they don't produce the old-style Estes engine hook anymore, but I like that hook better then the new-style hook. Does anyone feel the same way ? Also, my main question is, does anyone know of a place where the old-style hooks can be purchased ? Thank you.

[CPMcGraw]

I know that they don't produce the old-style Estes engine hook anymore, but I like that hook better then the new-style hook. Does anyone feel the same way ? Also, my main question is, does anyone know of a place where the old-style hooks can be purchased ? Thank you.

While they're a bit slimmer in cross-section, the SEMROC engine hooks have the same, simple profile as the original Estes hooks.

I think the BMS hooks are also similar in profile, but slimmer in width. Maybe not as slim as SEMROC's.

[tonypv]

Flis Kits also has standard size engine hooks.

[Mach1]

I know that they don't produce the old-style Estes engine hook anymore, but I like that hook better then the new-style hook. Does anyone feel the same way ? Also, my main question is, does anyone know of a place where the old-style hooks can be purchased ? Thank you.

Glad to know that I'm not the only one who hates the "new style" motor hook. I guess they're, not so new now.....they've been around for a long time. Here's what I do with them. I cut off the extra hook part with a tin-snips, straighten it a bit, and then bury the cut end in the front end of the motor mount. The end result is a motor hook that's a ringer for the old style one.

[Ltvscout]

Glad to know that I'm not the only one who hates the "new style" motor hook. I guess they're, not so new now.....they've been around for a long time. Here's what I do with them. I cut off the extra hook part with a tin-snips, straighten it a bit, and then bury the cut end in the front end of the motor mount. The end result is a motor hook that's a ringer for the old style one.
Yup, same thing I do. Works great!

[dwmzmm]

Yup, same thing I do. Works great!

I do the same, too. Be careful after you cut that ugly part off; the metal can be very, very
sharp and will cut your fingers/hand if you're careless afterwards (happened to me once)...

Also, BMS has the Estes original style engine hooks and works great, too.

[Royatl]

I know that they don't produce the old-style Estes engine hook anymore, but I like that hook better then the new-style hook. Does anyone feel the same way ? Also, my main question is, does anyone know of a place where the old-style hooks can be purchased ? Thank you.

Semroc, Fliskits, and BMS.

Quest and Custom produce some variation of the current Estes version.

I have about 30 original Estes clips, and a few from BMS and Flis. Just got a dozen or two more Estes clips from someone dumping his old rockets.

I replaced the clip in my Interceptor with an original Estes clip, but I decided to go with the current Estes clip in the Red Max.

In particular, don't use current Estes clips with mini-motors. They often impinge on the exhaust and cause thrust vectoring.

[dwmzmm]

Semroc, Fliskits, and BMS.
In particular, don't use current Estes clips with mini-motors. They often impinge on the exhaust and cause thrust vectoring.

And, I can't tell you how many times I've seen the current Estes clips snag on to a clothes
pin support and the model, with the engine full of life, just sits there on the pad. Sometimes
very embarrassing to the rocket's owner....

[sandman]

The old style engine clips can be easily made from the stainless steel metal clips used on wiper blades.

Stop by any auto service store (especially right at the begining of a good rain storm) and you can pick up a lifetime supply for free. One wiper blade gives you enough material for 8 to 12 engine clips.

Just use two pairs of pliers and a spent motor to guage the size.

The best way to cut the metal is with a good cold chisel, hammer (a high energy enertial device :rolleyes: ) and the anvil flat area of a good vise.

[CPMcGraw]

Glad to know that I'm not the only one who hates the "new style" motor hook. I guess they're, not so new now.....they've been around for a long time. Here's what I do with them. I cut off the extra hook part with a tin-snips, straighten it a bit, and then bury the cut end in the front end of the motor mount. The end result is a motor hook that's a ringer for the old style one.

I don't do any cutting, but simply bend the art deco end up a tad until it's parallel with the long end. Then I turn the clip around backward. The modified end can be used to attach the Kevlar to (with a dab of epoxy), and the "front" end becomes the new business end.

[scigs30]

I am with all of you, I like the old Estes hooks. I was lucky and bought a bunch at the LHS for 50cents a pack.......I have enough to last me a long time. By the way, I have Estes hooks from the old designer boxes. One thing that I noticed is that the width on some are narrow and others wider......The length is always the same.

[tbzep]

Glad to know that I'm not the only one who hates the "new style" motor hook. I guess they're, not so new now.....they've been around for a long time. Here's what I do with them. I cut off the extra hook part with a tin-snips, straighten it a bit, and then bury the cut end in the front end of the motor mount. The end result is a motor hook that's a ringer for the old style one.


I also break the excess and put it at the top. I've been doing it on most models ever since the new style came out. Occasionally I'll leave them stock if they are used in a rocket where the thing won't stick down in the way and look ugly.

[Leo]

I know that they don't produce the old-style Estes engine hook anymore, but I like that hook better then the new-style hook. Does anyone feel the same way ? Also, my main question is, does anyone know of a place where the old-style hooks can be purchased ? Thank you.

I completely agree. And I hate when the rocket stands on the engine hook.

[pantherjon]

I completely agree. And I hate when the rocket stands on the engine hook.

I do too! It makes it a pain to display the rocket!

[Rocket Doctor]

To display rockets with the engine hook protruding, get a nice roud piece of wood, finish it off with wood stain.

Take a dowel that fits inside the motor casing and glue (better to screw it) to the wood base.

Clean out the interior of the motor casing and insert into the rocket, then slide the motor casing down over the dowel, your tipsy rocket problem has been solved inexpensively.

[pantherjon]

Or just forgo the engine casing and get a dowel that is the appropriate diameter(13mm,18mm,24mm, etc) and just make it a little longer then the motor and just slide the rocket on that..Of course after you have secured and stained said dowel to a stable platform!:) That is what I plan on doing-eventually! It's one of those "One of these days" type things...

[Rocket Doctor]

The reason behind using a dowel/engine casing combination is that if you only use a dowel. then, there will be tension on the enine hook as long as the rocket is on display.

With using the combo, the engine hook will operate as usual without having any extra stress on the hook.

Bottom line is, that's it is an inexpensive way to make a display stand.

[barone]

The reason behind using a dowel/engine casing combination is that if you only use a dowel. then, there will be tension on the enine hook as long as the rocket is on display.

With using the combo, the engine hook will operate as usual without having any extra stress on the hook.

Bottom line is, that's it is an inexpensive way to make a display stand.
I've actually epoxied an empty casing to a CD cake spindle and used that. The spindle makes a great base for smaller rockets and those where the rocket won't stand on fins....

[Solomoriah]

I get the little wooden plaques, $0.50 each at Hobby Lobby, drill a hole dead center with my drill press and glue in a dowel, then mount an engine casing to the dowel as described. I don't mess with staining, I prime, sand, and paint just like it was a rocket.

I also got some wooden drawer handles which I cut at angles to make angled rocket stands. I'll post a picture when I get a chance.

[scigs30]

I will be finished with the new Interceptor today, and of course I will post pictures. But the new Estes style hook sticks out pretty far. I would stick with the old style hook for looks.

[Rocket Doctor]

All great ideas for display stands, functional and inexpensive, especially if you have alot of rockets to display.

[Rocket Doctor]

scigs30

Doyou want to display the interceptor or fly it?

You could have used the current hook and built a stand to accomidate it.

[tbzep]

I'm cheap. I use scrap wood cut into squares or rectangles. I hit them on the belt sander and knock off the rough stuff but I don't worry about getting them perfect. I then cut a wedge out of a used motor so that the engine hook will settle in and not have to stay sprung out. I glue the spent motor to the wood block and I'm done. For special models that need an angled display, I've occasionally used a bigger base and cut the motors at an angle, but I've also recently bought a few Semroc/Centuri stands that look cool.

[Rocket Doctor]

Thats fine, whatever works for you. One needs not spend alot on stands. Be creative and use available materials. Don't cosider yourself cheap, rather thrifty, and, that's perfectly fine.

Enjoy your rockets and I'm sure your family and friends appreciate your great work.

Have a great flting season.

[ScaleNut]

I know that they don't produce the old-style Estes engine hook anymore, but I like that hook better then the new-style hook. Does anyone feel the same way ? Also, my main question is, does anyone know of a place where the old-style hooks can be purchased ? Thank you.

I make my own from old windshield wiper blades .. unfortunately some blades have a really hard metal that resists bending ,but I have been able to make quite a few from the ones I have saved over the last couple years.

[Rocket Doctor]

That's different.

You could also take a current engine hook and use a pair of diagonal cutters or other heavy duty cutter and cut the cyrly part off. Or, you can use a grinder and grind the extra material off.

Then, the cut/ground end you can put into the slit.
CAUTION

WHATEVER METHOD YOU USE, BE CAREFOL, USE EYE PROTECTION (SAFETY GLASSES OR GOGGLES) AND LEATHER GLOVES. PROTECT YOUR EYES AND OYHER BODT PARTS, SAFETY FIRST !!!!




















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[Doug Sams]

In particular, don't use current Estes clips with mini-motors. They often impinge on the exhaust and cause thrust vectoring.With any motor when using an ignitor plug, there's a chance of the plug fouling on the hook (clip) and causing the thrust to vector. So besides the hook protruding into the stream, I look to see whether the plug might get caught on the hook. I often cut a notch in the plug to clear the hook.

BTW, I suspect many unexplained unstable flights were due to hook/plug-vectored thrust.


Doug

[Doug Sams]

Yup, same thing I do. Works great!Me, too, when I use them. Besides being more prone to interfering with the motor exhaust, as mentioned elsewhere in thread, these type hooks stick out too far aft making some rockets unable to stand on their own, and are especially prone to snagging on things at the pad. Besides the clothespins, there's a chance of catching one of the ignitor clips.

And if you've ever used a hook on an upper stage motor, the fancy bends are definitely in the way and must be removed.

Doug

[Rocket Doctor]

In regards to the Estes "curly hooks", lets go back to the old days and old ways, so many problems would be eliminated.

And, as stated over and over again about the igniter plugs, lets use a little rolled up ball of wadding like originally, not only will it eliminate deflected thrust, but, elinates pollution, plugs everwhere.

You know the early years of the hobby weren't that terrible. We had our balsa and we didn't have to deal with RTF's and quality concerns. And, if we experienced a product problem, it was taken care of immediately.

And, we could visit our local hobby shop where, in most cases, they stocked parts (individual) and they didn't cost a fortune.

And, motors of all types were readily available in a large selection, not just a handful.

Agree?????

[LeeR]

I know that they don't produce the old-style Estes engine hook anymore, but I like that hook better then the new-style hook. Does anyone feel the same way ? Also, my main question is, does anyone know of a place where the old-style hooks can be purchased ? Thank you.

BMS carries regular length hooks, the longer hook for Estes E motors, and the shorter hook for 13mm motors.

[Rocket Doctor]

Is the BMS hook straight and not the Estes "curly end "type? You mentioned length, not end type, you would have to assume that the hooks are the vintage styles (we wouldn't want any patent problems- or they wouldn't)

[dwmzmm]

Is the BMS hook straight and not the Estes "curly end "type? You mentioned length, not end type, you would have to assume that the hooks are the vintage styles (we wouldn't want any patent problems- or they wouldn't)

It's the straight hook, like the "old" Estes type (not the "curly end" type)....

[Rocket Doctor]

I kinda thought so.

maybe I'll look into engine hooks whilr I'm checking out the metal fin alignment guide, a die, some spring steel and some plating.

The only problem is they want to produce ant item in huge amounts.

No promises though......

[Mach1]

In regards to the Estes "curly hooks", lets go back to the old days and old ways, so many problems would be eliminated.

And, as stated over and over again about the igniter plugs, lets use a little rolled up ball of wadding like originally, not only will it eliminate deflected thrust, but, elinates pollution, plugs everwhere.

You know the early years of the hobby weren't that terrible. We had our balsa and we didn't have to deal with RTF's and quality concerns. And, if we experienced a product problem, it was taken care of immediately.

And, we could visit our local hobby shop where, in most cases, they stocked parts (individual) and they didn't cost a fortune.

And, motors of all types were readily available in a large selection, not just a handful.

Agree?????

I actually like the igniter plugs. When I was a kid, it was always the same story. I'd get a 3-pack of motors, and I would get 2 flights out of it - because I had to use 2 igniters to get one of the motors to light.

I know that the instructions said that most ignition failures were from improper igniter installation, but I never actually believed that. I just thought the igniters were pieces of crap. Once they came up with those plugs, I never had ignition failures. So I guess the igniters were fine....just user error! ;)

I would not trust myself to fly a cluster without igniter plugs. I have had 100% success flying clusters with igniter plugs. I also try to pick them up after use when I can find them :)

[CJU]

I actually like the igniter plugs. When I was a kid, it was always the same story. I'd get a 3-pack of motors, and I would get 2 flights out of it - because I had to use 2 igniters to get one of the motors to light.

I know that the instructions said that most ignition failures were from improper igniter installation, but I never actually believed that. I just thought the igniters were pieces of crap. Once they came up with those plugs, I never had ignition failures. So I guess the igniters were fine....just user error! ;)

I would not trust myself to fly a cluster without igniter plugs. I have had 100% success flying clusters with igniter plugs. I also try to pick them up after use when I can find them :)


I have an ignitor plug that I've used at least 5 times - It's only slightly scorched :-)

[Rocket Doctor]

Usually complaints about ugnition failure is due to igniter installation.

Many have a tendency to bend the igniter slightly before inserting the plug, thus causing a gap between the end of the igniter and the propellant. You could hook a power plant to the igniter, and it just won't work.

The tip of the igniter MUST touch the propellant.

I think the main discussion here is the interference of the plug with the exhaust, in some cases impeading the thrust to make the rocket unstable.

This could be a two part problem, a hung up plug and the interference of the "curly end" engine hook.



It is also esential to use fresh batteries (alkaline) thw more you launch, the need increases to change the batteries more often.

For a "normal flying season, you onlt need to change your batteries once per season, it, mainly depends upon how often you use your controller.

It would also make sense to take your batteries out at the end of the season, and, not replace them until the following flting season with fresh batteries.

If you go to the Estes educational site, there will be an indepth proceedure for installing igniters. This information can also be found on the instruction sheet for the kit and the engines.

Another prolem is, the safety button on the launch controller, the safety button must be fully depressed before you press the launch button.

I knoe it take some effort to hold the safety button in while tring to push the launch button, but, with alittle practice, it can be done.

Alot of "so called" bad launch controllers are the result of holding the safety button in, and after counydown, press the launch button as well.

You cannot let go of the safety button, and just press the launch button, it just won't work.

As far as clustered motors go, look at the instructions for the 36 D Squared, it goes into detail regarding clustered motors ( 2 motors).

You need to twist the igniter leads together to make a solid connection, loose twists won't work either.

And, you should use a heavy duty launch controller for clusters.

[Solomoriah]

I seem to recall nearly 100% success with the old Centuri Sure-Shots and their tape discs. I've wondered about using tape discs with Estes igniters, but I've never had a good reason to try it.

[Royatl]

I seem to recall nearly 100% success with the old Centuri Sure-Shots and their tape discs. I've wondered about using tape discs with Estes igniters, but I've never had a good reason to try it.

The Sure Shots derived their success from the pyro sticks they used, and the fact that they used higher gague nichrome (at least 32 as opposed to the 28 or less that Estes used prior to the bridge wire used on the Solars -- Estes got away with using lower gague wire for the Astron igniters by crimping it at certain places, therefore increasing the resistance at that point).

The tape discs in the later SureShots were a way of simplifying their construction. The first SureShots used a rather complex adhesive paper that required a fold or two.

[Rocket Doctor]

I think it's about time for a 21st century igniter. It's about time for a remake, how about a combination plug/igniter.

What about electronic ignition.

I guess the current production methods are cost effective so new igniters aren't on the horizon.

[tbzep]

The Sure Shots derived their success from the pyro sticks they used, and the fact that they used higher gague nichrome (at least 32 as opposed to the 28 or less that Estes used prior to the bridge wire used on the Solars -- Estes got away with using lower gague wire for the Astron igniters by crimping it at certain places, therefore increasing the resistance at that point).

The tape discs in the later SureShots were a way of simplifying their construction. The first SureShots used a rather complex adhesive paper that required a fold or two.

Yep...it's more or less a piece of thermalite with the cloth and wire sheath peeled off. You can make your own SureShots if you still have any thermalite left. Peel the outer wire and stuff off and use some of the wire to make the leads just like the original SureShots were done. Too bad the BATFE has put the stuff on the list....now you have to have a permit for it. :(

[ScaleNut]

the best thing that could be done with the Estes engine hook would be to to make it longer so it would "hook" forward of the motor block not behind it. or am I missing something?

the hook is there solely to retain the motor during ejection, so why is the forward end placed behind the motor block into thin tubing rather than ahead of the motor block?

thats the main reason why I make my own.the added befit is this assembly supplys a perfect anchor point for a kevlar shock cord without any further effort.

If I ever become a kit vendor (yeah right..lol) this would be my "trademark" all in one, motormount/shockcord anchor system

[tbzep]

Some kits don't have a thrust ring, so the front of the hook becomes the thrust ring. This means they hook needs to be the length of the motor and not longer.

[Initiator001]

the best thing that could be done with the Estes engine hook would be to to make it longer so it would "hook" forward of the motor block not behind it. or am I missing something?



The motor hook for the AeroTech kits was designed so that it would hook forward of the motor block/ring. ;)

Bob

[Rocket Doctor]

The engine hook is placed forward of the engine block so that the motor doesn't move the engine hook.



The engine hook hold the engine in place, and, the engine block prevents movement.

Whenever a rocket was designed (Estes) and, I was composing the instructions, I would have a change order made to include an engine hook.

Also, the engine hook is the exact length of the engine, if you were to glue in the engine block and were off slightly, you woudn't be able to insert the engine.

[LeeR]

It's the straight hook, like the "old" Estes type (not the "curly end" type)....

As mentioned, the ends are like the originals, just a 90 degree bend. The width of them is a little narrower than the Estes ones. I have not used them yet, but assume they will hold up just fine.


Update: Got one of the BMS E-motor hooks out last night for a Super Big Bertha scratch build. They are longer than the motor by the length of a "2050" ring (also sold as a 24mm engine block). This is a good idea, I think, but just be aware of the fact that they are a little longer than the Estes version. I didn't check the standard engine hook, but would guess it is also longer.

Sorry -- too lazy right now to run down to the shop to measure... but recommend getting engine blocks from BMS if you get their hooks. Good insurance even on Estes hooks -- i.e. putting the block above the hooked end at the top.

[SatelliteInterceptor]

Several of you mentioned that original-style hooks can be purchased at BMS. I am kind of new to the whole "on-line rocketry" thing. Would BMS be "Balsa Machining Service" ???

Thank you.

[Royatl]

Yep, Balsa Machining Service.

[Rocket Doctor]

Any questions just feel free to ask, we all are here to help out.

[tbzep]

Any questions just feel free to ask, we all are here to help out.

I've got these hemorrhoids and I was just wondering.... :p :D :p

[Rocket Doctor]

The Doctor suggests using a tapered Wire brush on a 3/8 " reversable drill at a slow speed.

No need for speed in this senario.

And, after all of that, take two aspirins and call my office and I will refer you to an expert.

[hcmbanjo]

I remember reading about making engine hooks from the metal strips in windshield wiper blades. In all my years of building, the few engine hooks I made were fashioned from wire or paper clips. I always used hooks from vendors. I did a search last night and pulled up this thread.

I have to admit, it felt strange reaching into the trash can at the auto supply store. But then again, I'll never see these people again. There were four open packages of used wiper blades, I grabbed them all.

When I got home I realized only two of the four blades were suitable for engine hooks. Next time I'll look to see that metal strip "peeking" out the side of the rubber blade.

I used flat pliers to make the 90 degree bends. I "cut" the flat metal by holding it in an end nipper and simply bending it back and forth. It really only took two bends either way to break it off. The ends were a little sharp, I dressed them with a metal file.

Simple and fairly fast. I now have 10 standard and 4 mini-engine hooks. It only took 30 minutes to bend, cut and dress them all. I saved 50 cents a pop (whoo-hoo!) and have a story to tell.

[foose4string]

I have a relative who used to be a manager at a Jiffy Lube. A year or two ago I asked him to save a bunch of used wiper blades and told him the reason behind it. Couple weeks later I had dozens of blade inserts. He even went through the trouble of stripping them down for me and giving me the bare metal. About half of them were too wide, stiff, or too heavy, but I got a enough good ones to make LOTS of motor hooks. I use a pair of Klein 2000 series side cutting pliers cut them to the right length. Cuts through 'em like butter.

[Solomoriah]

Re-reading this thread, I see several people who mentioned modifying the "bottom" end of an Estes hook, then installing it upside down. Perhaps I'm missing something... I have several rockets where I installed the hook upside down without modifying it at all.

I just stripped down a wiper blade and got two perfectly-sized strips of metal; I made two hooks from it that look almost as good as factory, and I have lots left. Excellent tip!

[mycrofte]

I don't know which ones are new or old. But I like the clips with the finger tab for getting the old engine out. At least they work ok on 'C' size engines without messing up a launch...

[shockwaveriderz]

a few months back I asked if anybody knew when Estes changed over from the old to the new engine hook. Could some of you guys that have kits from the mid to late 80's and early 90's look at your kits and see if you can tell when they changed over.

I had a former manufacturer ask me to ask this question.

thanks in advance

terry dean

[Mach1]

I have an original Super Vega Kit, (vintage 1993) and it came with the old-style motor hook. I think they changed during this timeframe or soon after that.