Model Rocketry - Pre & Post Internet

[cas2047]

As I read through the threads on YORF today it strikes me how different the rocketry community must be today as opposed to the pre-internet days.

I wonder how easily during the pre-internet days hobbyists were able to buy/sell collectible kits, communicate with other hobbyists, petition vendors for new products, get together, etc..

Can some of the folks who were involved in the hobby pre-internet comment on how it worked in the good old days? Was it better, worse, more complex??? With the advent of the internet have you seen a huge increase in the number of people actively involved in the hobby?

Just curious...

[ghrocketman]

In some ways it is better now and some ways worse.

The Good: Much easier to find something you are looking for; you don't have to know a guy, that knows this other guy, that might have something, etc.

The Bad: Potential of internet scams and ripoffs (search for info on "jonesy" on this site)

The Ugly: Unfortunately the sellers are now MUCH more aware of the collectible value of their goods; no way are you going to get an original K-29 Saturn 1B for the $50.00 I once did unless the seller is TOTALLY CLUELESS.
Prior to my becoming a BAR when I was in my first phase of rocketry from 1977 to 1988, in addition to purchasing from my LHS's in Michigan, I used to buy TONS of stuff from a guy named Harry out in Rose Township, Michigan. This guy literally had a basement FULL of all types of rocket engines from AVI 10mm 1/8 A's through early H+ high power stuff. I still remember the first time I saw a Composite Dynamics G engine.
He also had a GARAGE FULL of kits; anything from 1/45 Centuri LJ IIs to K-29 S1Bs to Mars Landers; He had the entire lines from Centuri and Estes back to about 1969....no Enerjet/Mini-Max kits though. He always sold for fair, non-collectable prices. I remember buying a TON of 24mm Composite Dynamics E and F pro-jets from him. I flew one last year and the delay STILL worked !
I have no idea where he got all the stuff, nor did I care....he just priced it RIGHT.

He sold all the stuff off to some collector as one remaining load in the middle nineties when I spoke to his son about the stuff.

[sandman]

As I read through the threads on YORF today it strikes me how different the rocketry community must be today as opposed to the pre-internet days.

I wonder how easily during the pre-internet days hobbyists were able to buy/sell collectible kits, communicate with other hobbyists, petition vendors for new products, get together, etc..

Can some of the folks who were involved in the hobby pre-internet comment on how it worked in the good old days? Was it better, worse, more complex??? With the advent of the internet have you seen a huge increase in the number of people actively involved in the hobby?

Just curious...

I have been in this hobby off and on since the summer of 1958, (yes, I am that old!) .

I lived in a rural area of Michigan (still do) where my 'local" hobby shop was a gas station that sold model kits. (go figure! :confused: )

I can tell you this, before the internet this was a solo hobby for me.

I was lucky to find anyone that even wanted to watch!

As for scams well, yea, there are those people out there on the interweb but I have bought and sold a lot of stuff via the www and I haven't been taken yet...knock on wood.

[rocketguy101]

For me there is a third phase: pre-internet, pre-Model Rocketry magazine :)

I lived in a small town in AZ and found out about modrocs through my best friend--he got a Centuri starter kit for Christmas. Right after that, a hobby shop opened up, and I talked my folks into buying a set for me too (Javelin with the wooden tripod launcher). We had a lot of fun shooting off our rockets, and thought this is all there is to it.

One day, the owner of the hobby store showed us a new magazine devoted to rocketry (it was the 2nd issue of MRm). That blew me away, seeing what all was being done in the hobby, and all the competitions out there, and the NAR! A whole new world opened up for me. But we had to wait each month to find out the latest and greatest Centuri and Estes (and Cox, and AVI, etc) were coming out with.

Later we started a club to launch, trade ideas, get others involved in the hobby. We published a newsletter and traded with other clubs. Our other source of information was the newsletters published by the manufacturers.

Now fast forward--the internet has been fantastic to obtain new information instantly. Plus being able to communicate with other modelers in (almost) real time to ask questions, offer advice, find out "how do you..." is a great thing.

I don't do auctions or buy "collectibles" so the scam thing hasn't bothered me. I see alot more of people helping people, even total strangers.

[dwmzmm]

Yes, the internet does make things much more interesting for those wanting to know more
about model rocketry, I can say that the pre-internet days seem more exciting and interesting.

I first got started after I saw an Estes catalog at a friend's house (we traded our build "secrets" on plastic airplanes - Revell, Monogram, etc) that had the (then) new 1/70
Saturn 1-B on the cover. After convincing my parents to order me the Deluxe Starter Set,
everything relating to model rocketry took off from there. It was exciting to find that
shipping box sticking out of your mailbox (or leaning on your front door), opening it up and
looking at the stuff inside. My early fleet built up quickly due to the generous "free kits"
Estes & Centuri offered for mail order customers.

From there, saw an ad somewhere for a sample copy of Model Rocket magazine, joined the
NAR, got into competitions, joined a new Section, did lots of weekend flying, etc. Met many
new friends via mail during that time; also received many fantastic newsletters from various
clubs/sections and even individuals that had incredible production values! Getting several
editions of The Handbook of Model Rocketry also helped.

I can't help but noticed that NAR Sanctioned contests in those days seem to draw far more
contestants than they do today. The resourcefulness and originality of the rocketeers were
amazing in those days considering what we had to work with compared to the high tech
stuff of today...

[Rocketking]

The various segments of the ModRoc hobby kind of blurred along the way.

But there were distinct portions.

Depending on LHS for info and materials WAS a drag. Got Better when the boxes started coming in from Penrose, CO and Phoenix, AZ. The catalogs just kept coming!

Then there were the NAR membership days, starting about '75. (Yes, Gordon, I am that old as well). A lot of good info in the ads there as well. Took a long time to make a NARAM, however.

And then I found out about regional conventions in '91. Attended the last Pearl River Con in the spring, even met up with Bill Stine just before the launch of Quest. Met up with international competitors in MR Art Rose & Bob Biedron who flew scale, my personal favorite in ModRoc fun & games. And I met for the first time a Jim Flis who was giving away plans & goodies and just having a blast. Pun intended. What a great time!

Then I went to NEMROC that fall. Found the home turf of Jim Flis. And found him making foam cup rockets. This after hearing from my high school sweetheart's Daddy that styofoam will likely oatlast the soil of our hillsides, just rubbed me wrong. When Jim was giving the (?Decaffinator?) at NEMROC '06 I still couldn't get one to build it myself. I did give it away to a buddy, though! The gal's old man was likely rolling over in his grave, I'm sure!

And then came the NARAM vacations! There is nothing like these conventions! Nothing like walking out to fly something off the sport racks and starting a conversation with Vern Estes and his wife Gleda. Or bumping into Jim Flis carrying something back to his home on the field. Or meeting Carl & family from SemRoc in their booth with goodies. or Walking past the Sandman's collection of wonderful Upscales at one corner of the parking lot. Or seeing Wes of Dr. Zooch fame and his collection on display. Or seeing... Well, you get the idea.

It takes the internet to bring these thing closer, certainly. But it is still People that make Model Rocketry Exciting. And being able to get together and laugh over the things that "didn't turn out right". It helps a lot to meet the people behind the scenes.

[sandman]

Well said Glen.

I love going to NSL, NARAM and such just to put faces on names.

Now I think we need someone to make up permanent name tags that you MUST wear when you go to these things with your forum screen names on them!

Something with the Ye Olde Forum logo and your name(s) on them.

I think I have one from the "other" forum that Jim Flis made up years ago.

I'll have to look.

[cas2047]

Great stories/recollections!

For me pre internet I was more of a lone wolf. Of course that was my pre-BAR days in the 70's-80's. I built Estes kits that I liked. I flew pretty much with just a couple of other folks who were moderately into the hobby. I didn't know much about collecting or any vendor other than Estes.

The internet really opened the hobby up for me. There is much more connectivity to the various vendors who create kits, the people here on YORK and over on TRF who talk rocketry and can give "spot on" advice at the drop of a hat, as well as the different levels of the hobby from low to high power.

It really has brought many aspects of the hobby that I might never have gotten involved in right to me via the PC.

[Eagle3]

Before the internet collectors may remember the Mike Junglas mail auctions. Mike would act as a selling agent and send out a list of kits he had for auction. You'd mail back your bids on what ever you wanted and hopefully you had the high bid. I acquired several of my collector kits that way for prices well below what they go for on ebay.

Other than that you hoped to find a hole-in-the-wall hobby shop that still had OOP stuff and offer them a price to take most or all of what they had. You could get some outrageous deals that way.

[ghrocketman]

I bought some old Enerjet E's and F's in the early 90's from a hobby shop that was moving to a new location.
They had CASES of them, unfortunately I did not have the income then that I have now, or I would have cases of them.
The hobby shop still exists, but after several inquiries to the employees that still exist from those days, nobody seems to know what happened to them....One guy told me that they definitely went to the new store, but did not know what happened after that.
I actually flew them back shortly after I bought the few in something like 92 or 93....I had no idea back then that they were not produced after about 1974.
I just thought they were some sort of competitor to Aerotech and Composite Dynamics.
I seem to remember buying the E's for less than what a pack of C's cost and the F's for around $6 each.

[dwmzmm]

A short followup to my earlier post on this thread, you guys might be interested in knowing
how I got my Estes 1/70 Saturn 1-B kit. Back in 1981 or 1982, I put a classified ad in the back of the Model Rocketeer (NAR publication at the time) that I was looking for the kit in
the "still in-the-box" form. Lo and behold, within several weeks after that Model Rocketeer
issue went out, I get a letter in the mail (remember, computers weren't quite around then)
from some NAR member from a state I can't remember now (think it's Ohio or Indiana, or
someplace like that). His letter simply asked that I make an offer; I offered $40 or $50 and
he accepted!! Sent the money via postal carrier, and the entire kit with that classic box
arrived in about two weeks. As a "bonus," he even included the balsa nosecone of the
Gemini capsule intended for the Estes Gemini Titan kit! In fact, I used that Gemini balsa
for my PDRocketry's Gemini Titan - 3 built earlier this year (another thread elsewhere in
this forum).