Farside X question

[harsas]

So when I was a kid, I always wanted the Farside X but for whatever reason I never got one. A couple of days ago I got a set of plans in the mail and will finally build one. I have a question about the canted fins though. Were they canted for stability or just for the fun of making the rocket spin? Has anyone tried flying one with straight fins?

[mikemech]

My second one flew fine with straight fins. The spin on the first one was cooler.

[harsas]

My second one flew fine with straight fins. The spin on the first one was cooler.

That's what I wanted to know. Thanks.

[JohnNGA]

Probably was a stability issue, I cloned a Farside awhile back and went with a 24mm first stage. I have yet to fly it but imagine that a D12-0 will give it a ride.

[Doug Sams]

My second one flew fine with straight fins. The spin on the first one was cooler.I built mine with straight fins, and it flies fine.

I think the spinning was added because, back in the day, they thought they needed the extra stability. Anyway, keep in mind that the spin creates drag, so it won't go as high.

Doug

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[Doug Sams]

So when I was a kid, I always wanted the Farside X but for whatever reason I never got one. A couple of days ago I got a set of plans in the mail and will finally build one. I have a question about the canted fins though. Were they canted for stability or just for the fun of making the rocket spin? Has anyone tried flying one with straight fins?BTW, have you considered modifying it to use a 24mm 1st stage booster? A C11-0 is a good, latter-day replacement for a B14-0 (without resorting to the D12-0).

I pretty much munged the Comanche's 1st-2nd stage setup onto the Farside, with added vent holes and an external hook on the 1st stage.

I'm sure you'll do a nice write-up of yours up on your blog, but, FWIW, if you want to see more about the 24mm booster, I wrote mine up here (http://www.doug79.com/farsides/) . HTH.

Doug

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[Earl]

Probably was a stability issue, I cloned a Farside awhile back and went with a 24mm first stage. I have yet to fly it but imagine that a D12-0 will give it a ride.

That should get her off the pad. I was able to pick up one of these kits off ebay a couple weeks ago ($41...go figure....I thought it'd go for three times that) and it is interesting to note that Estes listed 1/4A booster motors as one of the recommended motors for the first and second stage.

I've heard anecdotal stories of the Farside staging right off the tip of the rod or close to it, and with a 1/4A booster it's easy to see why. Surprised that was even a recommended motor, even though as I understand, originally the pre-metric motor A's may have had a bit more total impulse than those under the metric impulse classes.

Earl

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

BTW, have you considered modifying it to use a 24mm 1st stage booster? A C11-0 is a good, latter-day replacement for a B14-0 (without resorting to the D12-0).

I pretty much munged the Comanche's 1st-2nd stage setup onto the Farside, with added vent holes and an external hook on the 1st stage.

I'm sure you'll do a nice write-up of yours up on your blog, but, FWIW, if you want to see more about the 24mm booster, I wrote mine up here (http://www.doug79.com/farsides/) . HTH.

Doug

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Harold, you have a blog?

[BEC]

I've heard anecdotal stories of the Farside staging right off the tip of the rod or close to it, and with a 1/4A booster it's easy to see why. Surprised that was even a recommended motor, even though as I understand, originally the pre-metric motor A's may have had a bit more total impulse than those under the metric impulse classes.

Earl

I had a Farside-X in the late sixties.....and flew it on the 1/4A.8-0 to 1/4A.8-0 to 1/4A.8-4 combo. It did indeed stage the first time right off the rod. I don't remember if I ever got the nerve (or the funds) to use B3s (B14s in metric) in the first stage.

[Earl]

I had a Farside-X in the late sixties.....and flew it on the 1/4A.8-0 to 1/4A.8-0 to 1/4A.8-4 combo. It did indeed stage the first time right off the rod. I don't remember if I ever got the nerve (or the funds) to use B3s (B14s in metric) in the first stage.

Ahh! Seems it was Roy Green (Georgia way here) who also shared similar stories, I think.

I assume then it was stable in that configuration through to the third stage ignition? Any recollection as to the altitude achieved by the third stage? Obviously, a 'no wind' engine configuration! (but fun to boot!.....Wow, staging before your very eyes!).


Earl

[Doug Sams]

Harold, you have a blog?No (not as far as I know). My bad. I was thinking of someone else. Sorry, Harold.

Doug


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[Earl]

So when I was a kid, I always wanted the Farside X but for whatever reason I never got one. A couple of days ago I got a set of plans in the mail and will finally build one. I have a question about the canted fins though. Were they canted for stability or just for the fun of making the rocket spin? Has anyone tried flying one with straight fins?

If you need any parts measurements or such for your build from a vintage kit, let me know. Be glad to measure up anything you need.

Good luck with the build.....oh, and do a search on JeffyJeep's standard Farside build here about a year ago or so....had some good info and tips as I recall which may come in handy on doing all the 'fun' stuff with cutting, mounting, and finishing NINE fins...Uughh! ;)


Earl

[Doug Sams]

I had a Farside-X in the late sixties.....and flew it on the 1/4A.8-0 to 1/4A.8-0 to 1/4A.8-4 combo. It did indeed stage the first time right off the rod. I remember reading similar stories from others, including Bob Kaplow.

My first staged flight, and the only staged flight of my first incarnation as a rocketeer, seemed to stage right off the rod. The rocket was my "Estes free gift" Midget from ~1969. I have no idea if the motor was a ¼A or ½A booster, altho it was definitely a shorty.

Anyway, a few years ago, after acquiring a few vintage, thick-walled shorties, I flew a newer Midget clone using one of the old, ½A boosters, and it wasn't far off the rod before it staged, either. That is, it seems like there wasn't much difference in those ¼A and ½A boosters :)

Doug

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[Shreadvector]

Back in the 1960's the motor casing walls were much thicker and the average thrust was much lower, so the spin was a good idea to ensure staibility of the slow flying model. if it did not spin, and it flew slow, then it would severely weathercock and fly horizontally and crash.

[harsas]

BTW, have you considered modifying it to use a 24mm 1st stage booster? A C11-0 is a good, latter-day replacement for a B14-0 (without resorting to the D12-0).

Doug

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I have been thinking about this. Of course, I do have a few B14's left...

Anyway, I am still torn. I might just build two. One built stock for the small field and one with straight fins and 24 mm for when I get to Kansas...

Oh, and BTW, You are right Doug, I definitely do NOT have a blog...

[harsas]

If you need any parts measurements or such for your build from a vintage kit, let me know. Be glad to measure up anything you need.

Good luck with the build.....oh, and do a search on JeffyJeep's standard Farside build here about a year ago or so....had some good info and tips as I recall which may come in handy on doing all the 'fun' stuff with cutting, mounting, and finishing NINE fins...Uughh! ;)


Earl


Thanks Earl. I will holler at you if I have a question.

[Bill]

I had a Farside-X in the late sixties.....and flew it on the 1/4A.8-0 to 1/4A.8-0 to 1/4A.8-4 combo. It did indeed stage the first time right off the rod. I don't remember if I ever got the nerve (or the funds) to use B3s (B14s in metric) in the first stage.


Times have changed. Those would not be recommended motors today even if they still remained available.


Bill

[Bill]

Anyway, I am still torn. I might just build two. One built stock for the small field and one with straight fins and 24 mm for when I get to Kansas...



Build the sustainer with straight fins - it does need any help with stability. Build two sets of boosters.


Bill

[dlazarus6660]

So when I was a kid, I always wanted the Farside X but for whatever reason I never got one.

Are you 'kidding', you were never a 'kid', your a big,little kidd! :p

Show us your build, please.

[Shreadvector]

Build the sustainer with straight fins - it does need any help with stability. Build two sets of boosters.


Bill

IF you do ANYTHING that makes the rocket leave the launch rod at a slow speed, then you will indeed need to have the canted fins and spin or else it will horribly weathercock and eventually fly horizontal and even arc over and head back toward the earth and crash under power.

Causes of slow speed off the launch rod:
1) Heavy payload.
2) Short launch rod (30" standard Estes rod is short).
3) Use of low thrust motors like the Quest C6-0 which is actually a C3.5-0)

Things that help to get higher speed off the launch rod:
1) Use a longer rod such as a 1/8" diameter x 4 foot long steel rod or, better yet, a 5 foot long 3/16" diameter steel rod.
2) Use a higher thrust booster, such as a D12-0 or a C11-0 with proper vent holes to aid the next stage ignition before stage separation.

[astronwolf]

Build the sustainer with straight fins - it does need any help with stability.
Agreed. I flew a Farside-X for the Set Altitude event. Straight fins on all stages took that rocket straight up. Not the best choice for Set Altitude, but I was feeling adventurous. Got to 16% of target altitude too.