Nike Hercules

[sandman]

Here goes! :)

I'm starting the "development" of a Nike Hercules.

I've redrawn and rescaled some drawings to come as close as i could to using estandard sized tubes.

What i came up with is a BT-70 sized sustainer main body and a booster using 4 BT-55's. The overall length of this "scale" works out to 36.35" long.

Now that is conciderably shorter than the 54" length of the TLP Nike Ajax but I'm trying to propotion this thing as accurately as I can.

Not exactly a kit but I want to see if I can make the parts for a reasonable sized model.

I will make the parts and patterns avilable to others.

The model will use 4 D12 motors in the booster.

I have dxf and dwg drawings if any of you guys have a CAD reader.

[heada]

From the quality of your other kits, sign me up for one once it's released.

-Aaron

[zeke1312]

Sign me up too! No CAD reader here.

[gilatrout]

A hole in my pocket is reserved for you. My Dad fired off a few of these when he was in the Army.

[sandman]

I'm still woking on the drawings so don't get too excited yet.

[ghrocketman]

I'm DEFINITELY in for a kit of this one if/when it is produced.
I have never seen any sort of a model rocket kit for the Nike Hercules....the closest I think we have seen to this is the TLP kit that has never materialized, and the Apogee plans.

[sandman]

The part drawings are coming together.

This won't be "exact" scale...but it'll be close.

I could go a hair larger on the booster tubes so I could use the SEMROC SLS BT-56 heavy duty tubes.

But then somebody would put 4 29mm motors in it.

We wouldn't want to see that now would we? :rolleyes:

[Pyro Pro]

I've never had a chance to build any of your other kits, but I'm definitely going to have to save up for this one. The Nike-Hercules has always been one of my favorites :).

[Gus]

As long as I don't have to roll any more booster transitions, I'm in. :)

[sandman]

Here is attempts #1 and #2 on the transition.

I will try #3 later tonight. :rolleyes:

It's a LOT harder than you think!

[ScaleNut]

But then somebody would put 4 29mm motors in it.

We wouldn't want to see that now would we? :rolleyes:

no ..however that would probably be a very scale-like flight!

[sandman]

OK, I think I got it!

Fortunately the transition is only 3.1" long so I didn't waste a lot of wood to get it right.

I still neeed to sand the indent by hand and get the final shaping.

If I want to produce a few of these I have to find an easier way to make these things.

That would be a rather large casting if I tried to use resin.

[zeke1312]

Sandman:

Wow, looks excellent! I can see the NH project moving on to completion. Can't wait 'till I build one from your efforts. I've seen posts on other sites from those looking for a NH kit. This thing (your Nike Hercules project) may well take off with a good demand for it. I watch for your update posts!

[DeanHFox]

Sandman, that's one sweet effort thus far. I'm sure my checkbook will get lighter when you announce availability.

Have you thought about preorders, just (a) so you can get an idea of who wants one (and is willing to put $$$ where their mouth is), and (b) so those of us who *really* want one don't have to wait for the third "batch", since I suspect this one's gonna be a hot seller? :D

I think there's a lot of us here who wish we had your skills. Wow!

[sandman]

Sorry, preorders just don't work for me.

I never know what the final price will be. I don't want to scare people.

I don't know if this will even work yet but Ihave high hopes. ;)

[gilatrout]

Gilatrout has his hands on his wallet

I've started, then put away for the moment, my Nike H. based upon Apogee's plans. That transition is a beast. You make it look easy.

Quick hypothetical question. Do you envision staging this model?

[gilatrout]

I still neeed to sand the indent by hand and get the final shaping.

If I want to produce a few of these I have to find an easier way to make these things.

You could always make your eager customers do it.

[zeke1312]

Sandman, quit tease'n us! Make this "fly" and you can quit your day job (well for a little while)!

[sandman]

Gilatrout has his hands on his wallet

I've started, then put away for the moment, my Nike H. based upon Apogee's plans. That transition is a beast. You make it look easy.

Quick hypothetical question. Do you envision staging this model?

Staging wouldn't be too difficult to accomplish and I will put provisions into the model to accomadate that but honestly...with 3 D12's in the booster are you really going to need another 24mm motor in the sustainer? :eek:

We're talking some serious altitude for a scale model but sure...why not? :rolleyes:

My Little Joe II model was designed for a 7 motor cluster and one brave soul did fly his on that combonation of a central E9-8 and 6 C6-7's to about 1,500'.

ZOWEE!!! :eek:

[CPMcGraw]

OK, I think I got it!

Fortunately the transition is only 3.1" long so I didn't waste a lot of wood to get it right.

I still neeed to sand the indent by hand and get the final shaping.

If I want to produce a few of these I have to find an easier way to make these things.

That would be a rather large casting if I tried to use resin.

Sandman,

Have you thought about slicing a master copy in half and pulling a sheet of plastic over it twice? That would allow for a much lighter final piece, and the customer could do the actual glue-up of the two halves...

[sandman]

Sandman,

Have you thought about slicing a master copy in half and pulling a sheet of plastic over it twice? That would allow for a much lighter final piece, and the customer could do the actual glue-up of the two halves...

That is one of many ideas I've had...I was also thinking of a two piece hollow resin piece.

My problem is details...I like a lot of details and there are just so many Nike Hercules "Gateguards" around that it's awfully hard for me to ignore the details.

You know the rivets, panels, clamps, bolts and such.

How about a basic model and you guys go nuts on the details?

[heada]

You could create a basic kit and provide instructions for adding the details. Built up paint/paper/card stock/balsa/basswood/whatever That way, you sell a high quality kit that can be either no details, low details or high detail, depending on what the builder wants.

Honestly, I think that because there are so few kits for a Nike Herc available (any?) that anything you produce will be a good kit that sells well.

Eh, just my $0.02

-Aaron

[zeke1312]

Here is an idea from a novice...please no flame throwing. Make a basic kit that when built, looks good w/o alot of detail. Anyhow, provide instructions/drawings that if/when the builder wants to, can add w/o any modifications to the base unit. This way you can produce an excellent kit for those whose skill level is say a 3 and detail upgrades for those of 4+ skill level. :)

[sandman]

There seems to be an echo here! :rolleyes:

OK, a basic kit it is.

You guys can do the rivets! ;)

Now i still have to figure out how to reproduce the darn transition cheaply!

It's still going to have a whole bunch of parts!

12 fins.

1 nose cone.

1 tail cone.

1 transition.

10 body tubes.

8 centering rings.

WHEW!!! :o

[Rocketcrab]

Glad I saw the "heads up" on the other forum about your latest project, Gordon. Looks great! Looking forward to it, it's on my Christmas wish list!! :D

[rosko_racer]

How come this has not been mentioned at TRF? I have been looking around for a N-H with no luck. I am keeping an eye on this thread for sure.,..

[sandman]

It's been a long time since I've had a 'big project'. OOOHHHH I'm STOKED!!!

Well it won't be THAT big. It'll only be about 37" long overall but will have 4 D's for the booster.

The booster is 14.125" long and uses 4 BT-55's

This is what I finished up tonight.

I still haven't worked out "exactly" how I will reproduce the transition.

[sandman]

Hey! Moderators!!

How did THAT happen??? :eek:

I replied to OK Turbo's post and it appeared BEFORE his :confused:

AAaaaaaand! It says he replied at 7:00 AM tomorrow morning!!! :confused:

Does somebody have a flux capacitor hooked into their computer! ;)

[Ltvscout]

Hey! Moderators!!

How did THAT happen??? :eek:

I replied to OK Turbo's post and it appeared BEFORE his :confused:

AAaaaaaand! It says he replied at 7:00 AM tomorrow morning!!! :confused:

Does somebody have a flux capacitor hooked into their computer! ;)
Don't get me started on Michael J. Fox!!! :(

Anyhow, I saw that somehow my server at the webhost was fast by 12 hours. I sent in a trouble ticket and they got it fixed within 10 minutes. Here was their explanation:

Due to a glitch in the central time database used to
automatically update the time on our shared servers, a
number of our server's time was set ahead by 11-12 hours.
This has been corrected on your server. If you continue to
experience a problem please let us know and we will do our
best to assist you. Thank you.

[OKTurbo]

Gordon!!! You sly dog... I've been lurking away at TRF.com and there's been no mention of this until today. I guess I need to check out YORS Forum more often.

I'm a sucker for the Nike-Hercules, so you know I'll buy whatever you come up with.

On the booster transition....with a good master plug, a mold could be made to make fiberglass copies. There are some good videos on-line of the process at this site. http://www.freemansupply.com/video.htm

If you do the N-H, it definately has to be staged. The trick is getting the sustainer's conical tail into the booster transition like the real one.

It's been a long time since I've had a 'big project'. OOOHHHH I'm STOKED!!!

[gilatrout]

Simple is good.

How about a crib for some of the more detailed minded folks. Maybe something like having the rivet pattern printed on the cardstock used for the fin can wrapper?

And now in a shameless attempt the threadjack this discussion, how would you recommend adding rivet details?

[sandman]

Simple is good.

How about a crib for some of the more detailed minded folks. Maybe something like having the rivet pattern printed on the cardstock used for the fin can wrapper?

And now in a shameless attempt the threadjack this discussion, how would you recommend adding rivet details?

I printed a lot of paper parts and basically I am going to see about doing rivet lines from the "inside" on the paper. There are a LOT of rivets, screws and bolt heads on this thing.

I have been working on this project whenever i get some free time. A lot of redrawing diagrams and CAD drawing from all of the pics and information I can accumulate.

So far the hardest part has been the transition. I can make one as perfectly as is possible for me. The problem is which method is the easiest and most efficiant to duplicate them. So far I have been given a ton of ideas and come up with a bunch myself.

I just have to find the "best" one!

There will be a lot of paper wraps on this thing...more than I first though, to simulate all of the panels and a TON of rivets. Again it's a mater or which method is the most efficiant.

Here is what I've drawn up so far. I'm sure there will be a lot of changes before I finish.

More pictures later.

[sandman]

It's been cold here so i was putting off turning the rest of the parts but i finished those today.

So I had to put it together to see how it looked. :rolleyes:

[zeke1312]

I love it! Beautiful work from the master, Sandman!

[the mole]

OK sandman you have hooked anotherone. Count me in for a couple of these kits when they are ready. Where do you find the time.

[sandman]

I've gone on to a new obsticle to overcome. The fins.

How do you get that nice diamond cross section?

The white one uses a cardstock skin glued over a balsa wood frame...It's OK I guess. It would allow mw to embose the rivet detail along the leading and trailing edge.

The solid balsa wasn't too bad to do...but it wasn't easy either! It does require the use of a belt sander and you have to hold the part just right.

The balsa and paper frame fins are I'd say equally difficult to do.

OK, maybe this isn't really that important. I just wanted to see if I could do it.

I also show a pdf of my fin CAD drawings for the paper fins.

Anybody else want to try and make a set and see how they come out for you.

[CPMcGraw]

I've gone on to a new obsticle to overcome. The fins.

How do you get that nice diamond cross section?

Sandman,

I don't mean to sound like a broken record here, but this looks like another prime area for a vacuformed piece. Maybe a thin, rivet-embossed, pulled skin to be glued down over a balsa core. That way the core wouldn't have to be perfect, just "close enough" around the edges to fit inside.

[sandman]

Sandman,

I don't mean to sound like a broken record here, but this looks like another prime area for a vacuformed piece. Maybe a thin, rivet-embossed, pulled skin to be glued down over a balsa core. That way the core wouldn't have to be perfect, just "close enough" around the edges to fit inside.

Well, it's come up a few times already so it looks like I may have to make a vacuform machine.

[CPMcGraw]

Well, it's come up a few times already so it looks like I may have to make a vacuform machine.

One suggestion for these fins - start the cores with plywood, either A/C grade or just lite-ply, and glue some balsa "filler" over them to take up the empty space. Use the plywood to form more robust TTW tabs than just plain balsa.

[Doug Sams]

One suggestion for these fins - start the cores with plywood, either A/C grade or just lite-ply, and glue some balsa "filler" over them to take up the empty space. Use the plywood to form more robust TTW tabs than just plain balsa.Craig, That's exactly what I did on this rocket:
http://home.flash.net/~samily/a-srs/avenger-srs3-3.jpg

Sorry I don't have a close up of the fins handy. But the core is 1/8" aircraft ply with 1/8" balsa laminated over that. It made it easy to put a nice bevel job on the fins, too.

The rocket still turned out kinda butt-heavy. But that's the nature of upscaling model rockets, I guess.

Doug

[Eagle3]

I'm building my L2 upscale Coldpower Convertible Marauder fins like this except I'm also laminating the balsa skins with card stock.

Doug, are you staging your Avenger? If so, how are you doing it?

[Doug Sams]

I'm building my L2 upscale Coldpower Convertible Marauder fins like this except I'm also laminating the balsa skins with card stock.

Doug, are you staging your Avenger? If so, how are you doing it? No, that's a faux booster. This rocket is my hybrid bird, designed to accomomdate the Sky Ripper 38's. The longest motor case just barely fits in the fin can, extending forward 2" into the coupler! (at the black/white chex).

Doug

[Eagle3]

Sweet... gotta love those skyrippers. I'm working on converting some of my old 2.6" birds to fly on my SRS 29mm.


Back to the topic (since I helped derail it :D ) the one thing stopping me from building a Nike Herc is the booster transition. Hopefully you can figure a way to duplicate those easily Sandman.

[Doug Sams]

I'm building my L2 upscale Coldpower Convertible Marauder fins like this except I'm also laminating the balsa skins with card stock.

Doug, are you staging your Avenger? If so, how are you doing it? No, that's a faux booster. This rocket is my hybrid bird, designed to accomomdate the Sky Ripper 38's. The longest motor case just barely fits in the fin can, extending forward 2" into the coupler! (at the black/white chex).

Doug

[Ltvscout]

Well, it's come up a few times already so it looks like I may have to make a vacuform machine.
Dave Miller of Sirius Rocketry can give you some good info on making your own vac-form machine. He did a demonstration of this at NARCON here a couple years ago.

[ScaleNut]

ok I'm in on this kit also !

I would be comfortable with a cardstock transition.
and built up fins (cardstock over a balsa frame).

they can be hardened with ca if need be, heck the big saturn or 1-b didn't have mouldings and vacuform fins. (thank goodness)

[Bob H]

ok I'm in on this kit also !

I would be comfortable with a cardstock transition.
and built up fins (cardstock over a balsa frame).

they can be hardened with ca if need be, heck the big saturn or 1-b didn't have mouldings and vacuform fins. (thank goodness)I really don't like vacuform parts (main reason it's taken all year to almost finish a U.S.S. Atlantis Refit).

I would go for the built up fins also. You could substitute 1/64" plywood for the cardstock if you felt it was necessary.

[Eagle3]

I would be comfortable with a cardstock transition.


Isn't that the way it's done in the Apogee Nike Ajax plan pak? I have the plans, but can't check right now. IIRC it looked pretty easy to make.

[sandman]

The transition is the real "stubling block" on this project. And this is a large model at 37" long so a solid transition may be the best way to go.

I just stopped today at the VFW post in Brown City, Michigan, they have a Nike Ajax out front, and I got some real important insite to what I have to do.

The details on that one are different...simpler...so that may be a later model.

BTW the pictures in the Doffler collection show rows of rivets on the rear fins. Well this one didn't have rivets...the leading and trailing edges looked like they were folded over and tack welded!

Much easier to model! And a the central backet for the booster fins was...simpler.

The only part that had a lot of rivets was the transition.

I'm thinking of balsa covered with cardstock may work out the best with all the detail stuff printed on the cardstock.

[Doug Sams]

Isn't that the way it's done in the Apogee Nike Ajax plan pak? I have the plans, but can't check right now. IIRC it looked pretty easy to make.I was wondering the same thing. OTOH, you still have the challenge of securely connecting the booster section(s) to the forward section. IE, there has to be some sort of fitting/structure behind the paper.

Doug

[rosko_racer]

Sandman:

If you need close up pictures of a Nike Hercules let me know: I work in Fort Meade, MD, and they have a NH on display as well as a N Ajax.

[sandman]

Thanks but the one at the VFW post I went to today is only 14 miles from my house on country roads (about 15 minutes away) and I could actually climb on the thing if I wanted to! It's out on a country road and there is nobody around.

OK, they may not like it if I did.

There is only one thing wrong with this display Nike. It's painted red, white and blue! :eek:

[Gus]

There is only one thing wrong with this display Nike. It's painted red, white and blue! :eek:
See Peter Alway's drawing of same here. (http://yellowjacketsystems.com/alway/images/hercolor.gif)

[sandman]

See Peter Alway's drawing of same here. (http://yellowjacketsystems.com/alway/images/hercolor.gif)

Actually the blue is much darker and is coming off in big chunks. The red/blue stripes on the booster fins are long gone.

It needs some tender loving care.

[Eagle3]

It would be nice if some local paint shop would step in and repaint it. The Toledo Rockets college football program got a local shop to repaint their Ajax outside of the Glass Bowl. They did a beautiful job and its how I plan to paint my LP Nike Ajax. Here's a before and after shot. BTW - there is also a Nike Ajax upper stage on display in Grayling, MI, but it's about 100' up on a pylon. It's starting to look rough too.

[Eagle3]

Sandman:

If you need close up pictures of a Nike Hercules let me know: I work in Fort Meade, MD, and they have a NH on display as well as a N Ajax.

Hey Rosko_r, could you take photos of your Ajax and Herc anyways? I'd like to post them in my web photo gallery for missiles. The more photos we have of different rounds to more options folks have for paint schemes. Here's a link so you can see what I have posted already.
http://www.cv41.org/personal/gallery/missile

[Chris_Timm]

Actually the blue is much darker and is coming off in big chunks.

Actually, it *was* midnite blue metal-flake.
My sister lives on the other side of that James Bondish-looking dome.

Chris

[sandman]

Pretty sad looking!

But nothing about 40 cans of Krylon won't fix.

[Gus]

Huvars project! :D

Then we go to Arnold field for a launch afterwards.

Probably have to wait for better painting weather, though.

I'll propose it at Wednesday's meeting.

[Eagle3]

I think in order for it have a lasting paint job it will need to be done by a paint shop. There is a lot of corrosion there that needs to be treated. Plus, you're going to need a lot of heavy equipment and stands to break it done and transport.

If HUVARS really wants a nice restoration project I can donate one of the Falcons I have. My only condition is the finished missile will have to be donated to the Yankee Air Force Museum after restoration. They lost all the Falcons they had in the hangar fire.

[zeke1312]

Any update on your progress? I'm itchin' to get "my" Nilke Herc but don't want to rush your project...........................

[sandman]

I worked on the prototype all weekend.

There are still issues on the transition and a new one on the rear fins which have a diamond profile and some single stage/two stage/deployment details to work out.

But I like the way it's coming out so far.

Still a hair over 37" tall.

[zeke1312]

Unbelievable! Wow, that's a fantastic missile you have there! I'm gonna cry until I get mine........ ;)

[sandman]

Well, I'd reccomend you get on a few other projects in the meantime. It'll be at least spring or early summer before you see one of these boxed up and ready to ship.

I have a LOT to do before it's ready for you guys.

I should probably get at least one or two test flights in first!

[zeke1312]

OK, but I'll still be waiting. In the meantime, can anyone suggest a kit to build that is scale for an actual rocket/missile? The bigger the better............

Oh, Sandman, for a chance to build your NH I can wait until next summer. In the meantime I'm guessing there will be a good demand for it when released. Over the last couple/few years I've noticed when ever I see a comment from someone looking for a Nike Herc kit, it made me wonder why none was available. I now can appreciate what effort it takes to produce such a kit!

[Gus]

That's fantastic!

[moonzero2]

Awesome Rocket!!!
If and when you have this kit available, how would I go about getting one? Do you have a sign up list? These types of kits are what makes model rocketry fun! Sandman I think it's great how you contribute to the hobby in this way..

[barone]

Well, I'd reccomend you get on a few other projects in the meantime. It'll be at least spring or early summer before you see one of these boxed up and ready to ship.

I have a LOT to do before it's ready for you guys.

I should probably get at least one or two test flights in first!


Gordon,

I'm sure you're going to need a beta tester..... :D

My address for shipping is....... ;)

[sandman]

Thanks, guys! :D

[Chris_Timm]

Heres a color scheme you don't see everyday.......

[Gus]

Sandman brought the NH to our monthly NAR meeting tonite.

It is even more impressive than the photos suggest.

The booster upper transition is a true work of art.

The rest of it is usual Sandman-superb but that transition, wow!

I'm sure there are machine shops that could make a transition like it out of metal, but to do it in balsa and cardboard tubes is truly amazing.

Numerous strategies for making the various parts to kit this were discussed with a number of very experienced builders.

The possiblity of offering this as a kit which could be flown as either a single or double stager was also discussed.

It is really obvious in seeing this up close why nobody has offered this as a kit before. Just way too many really difficult to fabricate pieces.

But man, what an unbelievably cool rocket.

But I wouldn't count on seeing this probably until summer

[moonzero2]

Awesome Rocket!!!
If and when you have this kit available, how would I go about getting one?
Do you have a sign up list?
Sandman I think it's great how you contribute to the hobby in this way..

[sandman]

I'm sorry I haven't posted anything about this lately but family and personal matters have gotten in the way.

Let me get over these "life hurdles" first and I'll get back to them.

I will post here first the details on how to get one of these kits when they are ready.

Now here are the "design" problems i'm running into.

Everything on this model is pretty easy to figure out...OK maybe not THAT easy, except for a few things that need to be overcome.

CG/CP--This thing is going to need a good size "slug" of weight in the nose to keep it stable...OK, I can do that.

Staging--Although this model is designed for 4 x 24mm motors an is going to get some serious altitude with just those 4 motors, I think a staging option needs to be available. This leaves the need for some kind of recovery devise for the massive booster section. What I had in mind was 2 D12-0 kitty corner from each other for gap staging the upper stage. The opposite corners will each have a D12-3 with rear parachute ejection. Two, for redundancy! ;)

Nose Cones--OK, I can make them individually or have them made by another supplier. That is an additional cost that must be passed on.

Transition-- OK this is the BIG stumbling block. Do I figure out a way to mass produce them or if the run of this kit is limited maybe I can just make them one at a time. But...that is a lot of hand work. I don't want this thing to get too expensive.

Flight testing-- Yea...I probably should fly it a few times first, Huh?

How many --How many should I make? 15 kits, 25, 50? That is a LOT of tubes, balsa plansets, boxes...etc. Just to give you an idea, if I was to just make 15 kits I would have to have 120 of the 20/55 centering rings! That's just one part!

These are most of the bigger problems but I WILL overcome them and release this as a kit!

BTW here is the latest pic. I painted the booster tubes.

[barone]

Flight testing-- Yea...I probably should fly it a few times first, Huh?

How many --How many should I make? 15 kits, 25, 50? That is a LOT of tubes, balsa plansets, boxes...etc. Just to give you an idea, if I was to just make 15 kits I would have to have 120 of the 20/55 centering rings! That's just one part!

These are most of the bigger problems but I WILL overcome them and release this as a kit!

Gordon,

My offer to beta test still stands :rolleyes: . You can count on me for at least one kit ;) .

[moonzero2]

Awesome!
I definately want one kit!
Can I send my money now? :D

[Ltvscout]

I'm sorry I haven't posted anything about this lately but family and personal matters have gotten in the way.
Make sure to take care of family first. Rockets CAN wait!
How many --How many should I make? 15 kits, 25, 50? That is a LOT of tubes, balsa plansets, boxes...etc. Just to give you an idea, if I was to just make 15 kits I would have to have 120 of the 20/55 centering rings! That's just one part!

These are most of the bigger problems but I WILL overcome them and release this as a kit!
I would ask for pre-orders and judge the number of kits to make from that.

[sandman]

Make sure to take care of family first. Rockets CAN wait!

I would ask for pre-orders and judge the number of kits to make from that.

Without a finalized price that wouldn't work. If the final price is too high more than half of the people drop out...then they want to come back. :confused:

That's what happened with my Little Joe II kit.

Let me get the design worked out first...then I'll figure out how many to make.

[zeke1312]

Sandman:

I want a kit and have no problem paying a premium price! I've been looking for a Nike Hercules kit for the last couple of years so I'm not going away.

[ghrocketman]

I'm definitely buying one !

May I suggest a Nike-Zeus kit in the future as well ?

[Chris_Timm]

Transition-- OK this is the BIG stumbling block. Do I figure out a way to mass produce them or if the run of this kit is limited maybe I can just make them one at a time. But...that is a lot of hand work. I don't want this thing to get too expensive.

The real-life originals used sheet metal to form the transition.
A decent replica could be made with cardstock patterns and 3 custom lasered centering rings (possibly 4 ribs as well) to support the patterns. Use lite-ply for all your 20/55 and other centering ring needs and these few extra custom rings will fill out a sheet of stock.

[Chris_Timm]

May I suggest a Nike-Zeus kit in the future as well ?

Nike-Zeus A, Nike-Zeus B, Spartan, or an upscale of the Estes Nike-X?

[Rocketking]

Apogee has a nice planset for the Nike-Herc on their website Here (http://www.apogeerockets.com/rocket_plans.asp)

The cardstock used for the wraps and interstructure makes for good building.

Their plans use BT-5 for booster segments and BT-50 for sustainer body.

For those too eager to wait for the Sandman!

Glen A.
NAR 26298 L1

[harsas]

Sandman:

I want a kit and have no problem paying a premium price! I've been looking for a Nike Hercules kit for the last couple of years so I'm not going away.


I echo that sentiment. I have also been looking for one for quite a while. You can count on me for a kit. Heck, the kids can do without a couple of meals....
:eek: ;) :D

[rosko_racer]

(talking to self) hhmm... where is the check book...? Maybe the wife to it with her to Puerto Rico.... AH! Here it is!!! Under that pile of old books!!!

Well Sandman, you can count on me for at least one. I think I posted a thread on the other forum about the Nike Hercules. Like many, I have been looking for a N-H for a while and now I can see that my dream of getting one may come true within the next 12 months. I'm in!!!

BTW the prototype is looking really nice. I take my hat off and salute you for you awesome skill.

[ghrocketman]

I would suggest the Nike Zeus A, then the B (the B was very similar to the "real" proposed then cancelled Nike-X)

[barone]

Apogee has a nice planset for the Nike-Herc on their website Here (http://www.apogeerockets.com/rocket_plans.asp)

The cardstock used for the wraps and interstructure makes for good building.

Their plans use BT-5 for booster segments and BT-50 for sustainer body.

For those too eager to wait for the Sandman!

Glen A.
NAR 26298 L1

:D Yep.....been there......waiting for the plans and parts. Not that I couldn't wait for Gordon's, but just wanted some practice......See Gordon, I'm preparing for beta testing..... :rolleyes:

[Chris_Timm]

I would suggest the Nike Zeus A, then the B (the B was very similar to the "real" proposed then cancelled Nike-X)

The NIKE-X was not a name of a particular missile.
The NIKE-X is the name of the system of phased radar arrays and supporting equipment.
The NIKE-ZEUS A (for lack of a better term) had a single booster that resembled a TALOS (but much larger in diameter) and a sustainer that resembled the HERCULES sustainer stage on steroids with much thicker wings, fins, and control surfaces (for operation in thinner atmosphere).
The NIKE-ZEUS B has a single booster, then a short/slightly downsized transition to the next stage.
The SPARTAN had an identical diameter booster (slightly lengthened), and the next stage was the same diameter with a series of venting holes between the two.
There were several differing designs of re-entry vehicle control vanes used among the ZEUS B and SPARTAN.
Scale data for the SPARTAN (as seen at US Space & Rocket Center) was published in the booklet,
"FOURTEEN US ARMY MISSILES OF THE COLD WAR."

[ghrocketman]

Cox at one time offered a plastic 2-stage flying Nike-Zeus B. This is one of the rockets that they reccommended their 18mm D8-0 booster engine for; they actually advised use of the D8-3 in the sustainer of this one as an upper? stage engine...seems to be a mighty short delay for a D sustainer.
I find the Nike-Zeus A to be a much better looking subject.
The real Zeus-B almost looked like an Estes SPEV with a bunch of extra forward-mounted fins.

[MarkM]

Sandman --

Whenever this is kitted, I'm definitely IN! I've been looking for a nice sized Hercules for some time.

[sandman]

Well, this IS a nice size. I never bothered to figure it out yet...I just do the math and never concider the final number but. And it will fly on 4 black powder motors. Maybe 5 if you want to stage it.

It is 1/12.4 scale.

Let's see... :cool: main booster tubes on the real world rocket is 16.47" and the models tubes are 1.325 sooo...

16.47/1.325=12.43 ...yep, that's right 1/12.430189th scale...OK...1/12th :o

[MX774]

Without a finalized price that wouldn't work. If the final price is too high more than half of the people drop out...then they want to come back. :confused:

That's what happened with my Little Joe II kit.

Let me get the design worked out first...then I'll figure out how many to make.

Sandman (Gordon) when you make the kit available and if someone bows out then I'll buy their (1 ea) kit and one for myself.

Can't wait till it's available...

Regards,
Jim H.

[sandman]

While I try to figure out a way to mass produce the transition, the first few will be "hand made" out of solid balsa.

I've ordered tubes and I have Phred working on the decals.

But...there are still a bazillion other things to work out.

[zeke1312]

www.ed-thelen.org

This web site contains a great deal of information about the Nike family of guided missiles with primary focus on the Nike Ajax and Nike Hercules missiles. Check it out! :)

[sandman]

WOW!

That's sites OK I guess...if you can find someplace to scrape all the political bull**** off of your shoes. :D

But in all honesty I have tons and tons of information, blueprints and CAD drawings plus I'm working on drawings of my own that will be included in the kit.

The drawings will be the exact same scale as the model so if you want to check something just measure the drawing and transfer it to the model...or just hold it up to it. :)

[OKTurbo]

Hey Gordon,

I've got a spot picked out already. Just let me know when you're ready to ship. :)
Make mine a two stager.....

There's a bit of your handywork on this wall already.

[zeke1312]

OKt:

Nice!

Sandman:

Yes there are some "subjective" views, primarily from Ed, the site owner who is an old Nike Radar guy, circa 1957. What is interesting are the various posts by others. Not easy to navigate through but, if one spends some time there, lots of info. As you may have noticed, much information about Nike site layout and data, much on the radar systems, history of the Nike system, etc. Clicking on the various topics at the top of the first page (skip past the political stuff) and you'll find lots of data including susch things as a early 60s video of a Nike system released by the Army. I should had mentioned in my previous post the web site contained information other than just the missile for those who may be interested in the whole Nike system and not just the missile. What it took to launch, track and kill the target.

Those that visit other Nike info sites usually see Ed's site listed as a reference.

[zeke1312]

Here is a web site that may be of interest:

www.wsmr-history.org/index.htm

Lots of missiles including Nike Ajax, Hercules, Zeus, etc.

[barone]

Well, I mentioned earlier in this thread that I ordered the plan pak from Apogee just to get warmed up for beta testing Gordon's ;) . Apogee lists their's as a skill level 5. Very little instructions is why :eek: . No one should want to tackle this one without prior experience at cutting your own tubes, cutting and folding patterns, and building using a drawing instead of printed words (yeah, I know, a lot of us do that and then go back and read them after we've screwed it up :o ) Once all the parts come in, I'll start on it (FedEX tracking shows two attempted deliveries with no one home (someone is here 24/7) and a delivery attempt to the wrong address (maybe that's why no one was home)). Gordon, I feel for you. At least I have something to work with (patterns and drawings). Seems like I might have quite a wait to study the drawings.......

[sandman]

I have been working on it...HONESTLY but there is this holiday thing getting in my way of rocket building! :mad:

I haven't figured out all of the details of a two stage design yet. What I have so far on the two stage design is for two D12-0 engines set diagonally in the booster (opposite corners) these will use gab staging (it's only an 11" gap) but that leaves you with a dual booster engines (i.e. REDUNDANCY! ;) ) for staging.

I thought electronics would be just too much of a hassle for most builders.

The other two booster motors will be D12-3's because I do not want to see that booster coming in ballistic! The top of those two booser tubes will be blocked and since they are BT-55's there is plenty of room for dual rear ejection. Redundancy again! :D

I have some beta test pack started but the first few will involve a single stage 4 motor cluster.

That means I have to build a second test model (oh darn! :rolleyes: )

This is going to be one fun way to get rid of 5 D12 motors! :D

As for the plans...how about if I put them on pdf and load them onto a cd-rom?

That will save me an awful lot of paper and ink!

[barone]

I have been working on it...HONESTLY but there is this holiday thing getting in my way of rocket building! :mad: I believe in you..... ;)
I haven't figured out all of the details of a two stage design yet. What I have so far on the two stage design is for two D12-0 engines set diagonally in the booster (opposite corners) these will use gab staging (it's only an 11" gap) but that leaves you with a dual booster engines (i.e. REDUNDANCY! ;) ) for staging.

I thought electronics would be just too much of a hassle for most builders.It just so happens I have a timer (if it survives my next launch attempt with it) so I can try both ways for you. I know people have had success with gap staging but I'm interesting in seeing how you get the charge from the outer tubes to a central tube. Might need a ground static test before trying it in an airborne mode.
The other two booster motors will be D12-3's because I do not want to see that booster coming in ballistic! The top of those two booser tubes will be blocked and since they are BT-55's there is plenty of room for dual rear ejection. Redundancy again! :D I'm guessing dual 12"?
I have some beta test pack started but the first few will involve a single stage 4 motor cluster.

That means I have to build a second test model (oh darn! :rolleyes: )

This is going to be one fun way to get rid of 5 D12 motors! :D

As for the plans...how about if I put them on pdf and load them onto a cd-rom?

That will save me an awful lot of paper and ink!Oh yeaaaahhhhhh.......What's a few D-12s among friends? Makes F impulse for booster....aarrrr power! :D CD rom sounds like a good way to go. That way you can build at the computer and check the forum for new posts at the same time :rolleyes:

[sandman]

Oh yeaaaahhhhhh.......What's a few D-12s among friends? Makes F impulse for booster....aarrrr power! CD rom sounds like a good way to go. That way you can build at the computer and check the forum for new posts at the same time

Actually the CD was to save me some paper and ink. I make so many changes in the plans as I go it get to be a real mess with useless printed pages all over my office.

This way when I get it right I can just copy to a disc. :D I can even make changes!

Just as an example here is one of the upper fins. the lower body details and the centers of the transitions with allllll of the $%#^$# rivets and screw heads!

There are extra transition parts just 'cause there was room on the sheet.

Man, what a pain!

[sandman]

BTW, the detail isn't quite perfect when I convert the files to pdf's from my CAD.

The original cad drawings come out much nicer!. ;)

[zeke1312]

Plans on CD works for me! Will the drawings be to scale for the build (for fins ,etc)?

[barone]

Just as an example here is one of the upper fins. the lower body details and the centers of the transitions with allllll of the $%#^$# rivets and screw heads!

There are extra transition parts just 'cause there was room on the sheet.

Man, what a pain!Make sure I've got this right....the fin templates with all the rivets and other details are going to be an overlay to the balsa (or ply) fins? :confused:

[sandman]

Make sure I've got this right....the fin templates with all the rivets and other details are going to be an overlay to the balsa (or ply) fins? :confused:

Yes the fins will have cardstock overlays. Those will be pre printed on cardstock.

They may be embossed, I would have to make a master for that.

[barone]

WOW! I just zoomed in on the detail of the fins in your post earlier......by gosh.....what appears as just dots are RIVETS and SCREWS! Talk about detail.......

[Gus]

WOW! I just zoomed in on the detail of the fins in your post earlier......by gosh.....what appears as just dots are RIVETS and SCREWS! Talk about detail.......
That's why Roachwerks kits are so sought after and why so few are produced. With the possible exception of Paul Clark in England NOBODY makes scale kits anywhere near this detailed. And it's not just the level of detail designed in, it's that a part like the cardstock overlays will probably be professionally printed on very high quality stock. He could more easily and cheaply print them on his home printer but then the quality of the parts wouldn't match the quality of the design.

Watching Sandman create these kits is truly amazing. His modelling skills are so far beyond the rest of us that his real challenge and enjoyment comes from figuring out how to design a kit with HIS level of detail, that mere mortals can actually put together and still be able to afford.

As I've watched him work through a number of challenges on this Hercules build I don't know how many times I've heard him say "man, I always wondered why nobody made a kit of this, now I know". As he considers stuff like how to flare the upper ends of the booster tubes I sometimes have to remind him that he's the only one who even knows they're flared.

That's when he reminds me that Peter Alway is in our NAR section, LOL.

[sandman]

WOW! I just zoomed in on the detail of the fins in your post earlier......by gosh.....what appears as just dots are RIVETS and SCREWS! Talk about detail.......

Actually some of the detail gets obscured when I convert it to a PDF. :rolleyes:

[GeoLaw]

For those of you anxiously awaiting a test flight video from Sandman { :) } try this 2-stage NH of similar size. Scroll down half way through the page.

http://vatsaas.org/rtv/cinema/cinema.aspx


John Lawrence

[Rocketcrab]

Woah.........there are some really great videos on that website! :cool:

[zeke1312]

Sandman:

Any update on your progress? Just thought I'd ask....your project is on my mind. Can't wait but I will.

[sandman]

Well, I have run into two snags totally unrelated to the kits.

Christmas...need I say more? I make a lot of Christmas/Hannakah presents.

And well...I have run into some medical problems.

It's a b***h getting old! :mad:

[zeke1312]

Hope you and your family have a merry Christmas! Yes, getting old with med issues is definitely a pain in the r*****d. Get well soon.

[wilsotr]

It's a b***h getting old! :mad:

Ah, but it beats the alternative. :) Hope it's not too serious and you're able to enjoy a great Christmas.

[Gus]

For special occasions my wife sometimes calls Sandman to ask for help.

It's good to have a truly incredible friend.

Thankyou Sandman. :D :D :D

[ghrocketman]

Gus you are one lucky person !!!!!
How does one get on the list to "beta" test this kit ??????

[sandman]

Gus and I fly together so we tend to build together and since his wife told me he needed just one more present... :rolleyes:

I have been trying to put some parts together to make a few initial kits but I keep running out of stuff.

[sandman]

I have two kits nearly completed but I am short a few items before I can offer them as kits.

I'm all out of engine hooks (the kit take 4 of them) so I have to find some old windshield wiper blades. :rolleyes:

I am still waiting to hear from Phred at Excelcior (he seems to be A.W.O.L. for now) on the decals.

The transitions for the first few kits will be hand carved and actually I'm getting pretty good at making them.

The rest of the balsa parts quickly suck my supply of balsa away. The nose cone, tail cone and transition total 18.2" of 3" x 3" balsa so a 36" length of 3" x 3" balsa is only good for two kits!

Oh, yea...I still have to finish the plans...I hate paperwork! :mad:

[Rocketcrab]

As always, please count me in for one! ;)

Thanks!

[A Fish Named Wallyum]

I am still waiting to hear from Phred at Excelcior (he seems to be A.W.O.L. for now) on the decals.


Yeah, anyone know what's up with that?

[Tau Zero]

Oh, yea...I still have to finish the plans...I hate paperwork! :mad:I hear ya there. :rolleyes: :mad:


Cheers,

[duobob]

Hi Sandman
Put me down for one when there available!
THANKS! Bob

[Questor]

Hi, Sandman,

Please place me on the list to purchase a Nike Hercules kit. Thanks

Paul

[pchestna]

I'm in for a kit as well.

Pete

[heada]

I'm sure one of these kits would find a happy home among the other rockets I have. Count me in for one.

-Aaron

[the mole]

Sandman please count me in on this rocket.

[wilsotr]

Me too ...........

[sandman]

The number of kit requests has been noted.

This will give me an idea of how many I need to make.

[foose4string]

I guess I better get in on this while I can. I'm sorry I missed out on the Vostok and LTV Scout. The Nike Hercules is definitely mean looking missile!

[sandman]

I guess I better get in on this while I can. I'm sorry I missed out on the Vostok and LTV Scout. The Nike Hercules is definitely mean looking missile!

I'll save you one and as for the other kits I may re-release them if the demand is there. All of my kits are hand mad and are very tedious to make.

The Soyuz has almost 200 individual parts!

My old Little Joe II kit was almost 150 parts!

I do still need to find Phred at Excelcior for the decals.

Anybody heard from him?

[barone]

Well Gordon, I was hoping to beta test for you but I guess I better get on the list. I missed out on the Little Joe (and couldn't afford what they were selling for on e-bay) so I want to make sure I get this one. Thanks. And, once I finish my scale C altitude model, I swear I'm going to start on that LTV...... :o

[sandman]

Well Gordon, I was hoping to beta test for you but I guess I better get on the list. I missed out on the Little Joe (and couldn't afford what they were selling for on e-bay) so I want to make sure I get this one. Thanks. And, once I finish my scale C altitude model, I swear I'm going to start on that LTV...... :o

OK, it looks like about 15 of the Nike Hercules kits can be sold but I am going in for surgery in about two weeks with another few weeks to recover so I hope nobody is in a hurry. I'd like to make at least 30 kits just 'cause I think there will be a demand.

I just don't want to wind up with a bunch of unsold Nike Hercules kits scattered around my workshop. :rolleyes: And I would really like to avoid GreedBay if I can.

I will try to get at least two kits completed (OK it looks like without decals for now! :rolleyes: ).

Right now I am going to set the kit up for either single or two stage with rear deployment of the booster on the two stage version.

My prototype will be single stage just to make sure it flies.

[sandman]

I would like everyone that wants one of my future Nike Hercules kits to email me;

gagnello@yahoo.com

RE: NIKE HERCULES RESERVATION

I started a file folder in my email so I can "mass" email you guys when they are ready.

Thanks. :D

[barone]

Gordon,

I've come across some older Sport Rocketry magazines and the Sep-Oct 98 issue had these pictures in it (the pad picture is actually from the cover). Photos by Andy Schecter. Needless to say, they have wetted my appetite even more ;)

[sandman]

Ok...Now that looks like at LEAST BT-80's as booster tubes...maybe much larger.

That size would ve very expensive to kit! :rolleyes:

[Chris_Timm]

Here are some detail pictures of 3 of the 4 sides of the Nike-Hercules at White Sands Missile Range Rocket Garden/Museum.

[sandman]

Those are interesting pics but they bring up a question.

Those details pictured match the details in the pictures and drawings in the Doffler collection. Note the fin plates in the pic at the base of the booster.

The Nike Hercules on display at the VFW hall near my home are different?! The one at the VFW hall does NOT have a row of rivets on the leading edge and the fin plates are much simpler in design.

I wonder why that is.

There are two possible answers.

The one on display at the VFW hall is a later simplified version or.

The on display was made just for display and was never meant to be an operational missle.

[Chris_Timm]

Heres a few snapshots taken two weeks ago.
The early boosters had riveted edges and later ones were smooth. I'll check my other photos to see if a leading edge cuff was used as well.
The booster plates on the Brown City display partially appear to be VFW volunteer fabricated pieces. Round head rivets would be original, flush pop-rivets not so much.
The Interstage looks pretty authentic. Note the round head rivets and lack of patched together sheet metal.
I have photos of a Nike-Hercules from El Paso, TX that is practically just out of the crate new condition. I'll dig 'em up and post later.

[Questor]

The display at White Sands might be the 'A" version of the Nike-Hercules. The first ones had a liquid fuel sustainer with the nike booster. I believe later they changed to the solid upper stage as the 'B' model to be send to the deploy sites. Also note that the RF receptors for the radar guidance are placed between the sustainer fins and were later moved to the upper fin tips.

I have some reference material that describes this the A model as the development vechicle. The solid upper was deem more practical at sites and deployment than a liquid model. Easier to assemble on site. I also believe that no 'A' models were ever deployed.

[sandman]

OK, guys, I'm back on it! :D

I got some prototype parts in as well as some laser cut centering rings and laser cut basswood upper stage fins.

Phred has sent me the decals and they look super!

I'm checking them for fit on the model and will report back later tonight or tomorrow.

[sandman]

I did a quick "test" today on the time it takes me to turn a transition.

I'm getting faster as I make more.

Just for the basic turning without drilling the 4 to 1 through holes.

7 minutes by hand on the lathe.

Not too bad...probably faster than casting.

Gees! everything seems to be covered in balsa sawdust! :rolleyes:

There is still some hand shaping and drilling to do on the transitions.

But I'm getting closer!

[Pyro Pro]

You know how sometimes people will ask you how many trees you think you've killed if you use a lot of paper... exactly how much balsa did you use to make those parts??? :D :p

Those look great sandman! You are truely a master of balsa turning :D.

[sandman]

You know how sometimes people will ask you how many trees you think you've killed if you use a lot of paper... exactly how much balsa did you use to make those parts??? :D :p

Those look great sandman! You are truely a master of balsa turning :D.

Two trees so far. :o

In the upper left of the above picture are some of my "oopses".

Those will be for me to make something with. :rolleyes:

[zeke1312]

I love it!

[barone]

I did a quick "test" today on the time it takes me to turn a transition.

I'm getting faster as I make more.

Just for the basic turning without drilling the 4 to 1 through holes.

7 minutes by hand on the lathe.

Not too bad...probably faster than casting.

Gees! everything seems to be covered in balsa sawdust! :rolleyes:

There is still some hand shaping and drilling to do on the transitions.

But I'm getting closer!WOW! Only seven minutes? I'm glad I'm not doing them....maybe a week and they would have to go into the reject pile... :D

[sandman]

OK, this part only takes another 4 minutes after I made a jig/fixture to hold the part.

It looks ragged but it just needs to be cleaned up a bit with some sandpaper and coated with glue or epoxy (the builder can do that). to prevent the ejection charge from scorching it too much.

So far the transitions take me, including setup time for each part about 12 minutes each to make.

Only 50 more to go! :eek:

The tapered diamond shape of the booster fins are the next hurdle to overcome.

OH, MAN!...I'm getting sawdust all over my desk! :mad:

[moonzero2]

What we all want to know is what is really in that coffee cup? :D

Those parts look really AWESOME! and a lot of work.

[Doug Sams]

What we all want to know is what is really in that coffee cup? :D Sawdust? :D

Doug

[sandman]

Sawdust? :D

Doug

It make a very satisfying tea. :rolleyes:




The parts are hard...for anyone else...I didn't think it was too bad. I made 7 more at lunch time today. :D

What did you guys do on your lunch hour? :p

[Doug Sams]

OK, this part only takes another 4 minutes after I made a jig/fixture to hold the part.

It looks ragged but it just needs to be cleaned up a bit with some sandpaper and coated with glue or epoxy (the builder can do that). to prevent the ejection charge from scorching it too much.

So far the transitions take me, including setup time for each part about 12 minutes each to make.

Only 50 more to go! :eek: Gordon,

Talking to Bill Saindon about his V2 tailcone(s), I learned that the boring is the hard part. While things are on the lathe, everything should stay round and centered, but when the holes get drilled is when stuff starts getting out of whack. What did you bore them with? Did you use a "custom" 0.976" bit, for example? Where/how do you get one?

Short of using a milling machine, how do you line up the five bores? That's five chances to ruin the part, so I know you gotta be on the ball.

Also, prior to turning them, do you install the dowel before or after the four flat sides are cut? Again, how do you keep everything perfectly centered?

BTW, did you use a lathe? Or, since there was a dowel, did you turn them on a drill press instead?

Doug

[sandman]

Gordon,

Talking to Bill Saindon about his V2 tailcone(s), I learned that the boring is the hard part. While things are on the lathe, everything should stay round and centered, but when the holes get drilled is when stuff starts getting out of whack. What did you bore them with? Did you use a "custom" 0.976" bit, for example? Where/how do you get one?

Short of using a milling machine, how do you line up the five bores? That's five chances to ruin the part, so I know you gotta be on the ball.

Also, prior to turning them, do you install the dowel before or after the four flat sides are cut? Again, how do you keep everything perfectly centered?

BTW, did you use a lathe? Or, since there was a dowel, did you turn them on a drill press instead?

Doug

I use a lathe.

I line the parts up in a homemade jig that holds the balsa parts...since balsa is soft, the jig is made of foam. :D

The majority of the alignment is done with pencil marks and by eye...when yer good yer good!

As for the hole size, a 1" forstner bit cuts close enough to 0.976" that I don't worry about it.

Wait until you see the upper transition. They are 6.25" long, they have a through hole drilled down the middle and my drill bit is 3.5" long!

I made a jig for those too.

Ain't no crappy Chinese made parts in this kit! :p

[Chris_Timm]

I use a lathe.

I line the parts up in a homemade jig that holds the balsa parts...since balsa is soft, the jig is made of foam. :D
The majority of the alignment is done with pencil marks and by eye...when yer good yer good!
As for the hole size, a 1" forstner bit cuts close enough to 0.976" that I don't worry about it.
Wait until you see the upper transition. They are 6.25" long, they have a through hole drilled down the middle and my drill bit is 3.5" long!
I made a jig for those too.
Ain't no crappy Chinese made parts in this kit! :p

Thats a very inefficient & labor intensive method for mass production of the interstage adapter.
If you examine how the real one is made, (i.e. sheet metal wrapped around top and bottom supports) you'll see that a better, more economical method can be used to construct this piece.

3 custom laser-cut centering rings, a few (hidden) internal braces, and several small card stock pieces with the appropriate embossing of details.

PROS: less labor, less material, quality (and repeatability) of final appearance is improved.
CONS: Frees up more time for jobs that are better suited for the lathe.

[ScaleNut]

less cookie-cutting (laser-cutting)in a kit is a good thing sometimes

I sorta preferr the handcrafted goodness of a roachworks kit .
with many parts hand-tuned. The skill and effort involved in making the kit drives me to do the best job i can, in building it.

[sandman]

[QUOTE=Chris_Timm]Thats a very inefficient & labor intensive method for mass production of the interstage adapter.
QUOTE]


If I wanted effecient, I'd have some Chinese company make the whole kit for me.

Prison labor is cheap!

I'm having the upper fins laser cut 'cause thay are basswood. Basswood is just too hard to cut!

[heada]

I'd rather pay more knowing that I am getting a hand turned kit by Sandman than a cardstock kit by almost anyone else. Its not the most efficient, but I feel I get a better quality and better looking kit because of it.

Sometimes the best way is not the cheapest/easiest/quickest way.

-Aaron

[sandman]

Another reason I didn't like the "assembly" method of making the transition is strength.

There will be 4 D12 boosters under this thing pushing against a neccesarily (for stability) heavy upper stage.

The upper stage also may carry a sustainer engine. I don't want that sustainer engine to fire and use a cardstock transition as a blast deflector!

[Jeffrey Moon]

Sandman,
I have not built one of your kits but i firmly believe you get what you pay for. With that said so what is this beauty of rocketry going to set me back??? :) :)
Moonboy
"Wheres my Pink and yellow rocket??"

[Phred]

I know that whatever I buy from Sandman will be of high quality parts, high quality workmanship, AND will work.... For that I am glad to pay whatever I need to!

Phred

[Solomoriah]

Phred, you should make the url in your signature into a link. I keep trying to click on it...

[sandman]

Well. it has been a brutal week for me!

Tons or orders and regular work (I do theater lighting repair and this is Spring Musical time of year). Plus I'm trying to get the instructions and kit completed for a beta builder but...of all the DUMB things to run out of!

My wife tells me she is out of the braided nylon cord she uses to make the parachutes!

Yes...my wife sews all the kit parachutes...I cannot find any cheap Chinese child slave labor in my yellow pages. :(

I have to go to the fabric store tomorrow. But it's 20 miles away!

[barone]

Well. it has been a brutal week for me!

Tons or orders and regular work (I do theater lighting repair and this is Spring Musical time of year). Plus I'm trying to get the instructions and kit completed for a beta builder but...of all the DUMB things to run out of!

My wife tells me she is out of the braided nylon cord she uses to make the parachutes!

Yes...my wife sews all the kit parachutes...I cannot find any cheap Chinese child slave labor in my yellow pages. :(

I have to go to the fabric store tomorrow. But it's 20 miles away!LMAO.....and in another thread somewhere in this forum there was a discussion about NOT including parachutes in kits ;) Your wife would love us no doubt :D

[foose4string]

Hmmm..... Parachutes, rounding up pics for instructions, must be getting close.

[sandman]

Hmmm..... Parachutes, rounding up pics for instructions, must be getting close.

I also just recieved a really big balsa shipment! :D

But the instructions.... :eek: What a PITA!!! I feel like I'm back in college trying to finish a term paper! :(

Only with drawings included! :o

[foose4string]

So I don't have to go back a read 17 pages worth, have you gotten a chance to actually fly this as a 2 stage yet?

[sandman]

So I don't have to go back a read 17 pages worth, have you gotten a chance to actually fly this as a 2 stage yet?

No, not yet but maybe within the next week or so.

[barone]

No, not yet but maybe within the next week or so.Gordon,
Are you gonna use a timer or try gap staging?

[sandman]

Gap staging and yes...it makes me nervous. :(

[sandman]

I'm concidering supplying a CD with the kit instead of printing instructions.

The instructions will be in pdg format so if you wanted a hardcopy you could just print one.

This is going to be a lot cheaper than having them printed.

I could also include a CAD reader program (it's freeware) that will allow you to read CAD files which will also be included in the kit!

This will also let me include all of the jpeg and picture files. :D

Any cons for using a CD for instructions?

[handeman]

The only con is that you reduce the total number of possible customers to only those that have computers. That my not be much of an issue, but....

The difference between the number of customers without computers and the reduced cost/higher profit with CDs those with computers may make up the difference.

If your primary advertising is "online" then you can figure most of your customers will have computers, so use the CDs.

[sandman]

The only con is that you reduce the total number of possible customers to only those that have computers. That my not be much of an issue, but....

The difference between the number of customers without computers and the reduced cost/higher profit with CDs those with computers may make up the difference.

If your primary advertising is "online" then you can figure most of your customers will have computers, so use the CDs.

This is a "limited run" of kits.

I'm basically only selling them on this forum.

Sooooo...if you are on this forum...you probably have a computer. :rolleyes:

[foose4string]

I think a CD is fine. Even someone without a computer would probably know someone who does. Seriously, I don't know anyone without a computer. If you know about this kit, then you have a computer.

[OKTurbo]

Instructions and plans on a CD sounds like a good idea to me.

It's good to see that you're back on your feet Gordon. No rest for the weary! :)

[GeoLaw]

And here is another affirming vote for the instructions on CD.

Quote: "I could also include a CAD reader program (it's freeware) that will allow you to read CAD files which will also be included in the kit!"

I also vote yea for this idea, too. :D It makes getting one of your kits all the more fun. And it makes all those who miss out even more envious!! :cool:

John Lawrence

[zeke1312]

Hi Sandman:

You mentioned files created in "pdg" format. I'm not acquainted with that format. Can you describe? Where an I find info on the subject?

Hope I'm still on your list for a kit!

Thanks

[sandman]

Hi Sandman:

You mentioned files created in "pdg" format. I'm not acquainted with that format. Can you describe? Where an I find info on the subject?

Hope I'm still on your list for a kit!

Thanks

OOps...a typo...I meant pdf format.

[zeke1312]

Sandman:

OK, I can handle that one!

[wilsotr]

One more "yes" vote here .....

[barone]

Heck, I'm in no hurry.....just e-mail me the file :D

[sandman]

While getting ready for Easter dinner at my in laws I was just killing time playing with some balsa transition parts that were rejects.

I was figuring ways to fix them when my loving wife looks at the reject parts and says, "Why don't you make some smaller versions of the Nike Hercules?"

And I thought......DUH!!! :o

What a %&$#* BRILLIANT IDEA!

Yea, I know I haven't finished any of the big ones yet!

This one could fly on 4 18mm motors!

Overall Length...27"

Booster tubes.... 4 x BT-50's

Sustainer tube.....BT-60

D***, I wish I didn't have to go to the in laws for dinner...

I have balsa parts to make!

[moonzero2]

Instructions on a CD in pdf format with a CAD program sounds fine with me.
You can never have too many pictures.
A smaller version sounds way cool too!

[sandman]

I had enough time to glue up parts to turn on the lathe.

This is going to work!!!

And using only 4 C6 motors in the booster will be a whole bunch cheaper to fly! :D

OK...go...eat fast...come home...make sawdust! ;)

[Rocketking]

Now THAT sounds like a winner to me!

Did you manage to hear from Mike D. at all yet? I'm just being nosy is all.

Hope you're enjoying your Easter dinner!

[Gus]

This one could fly on 4 18mm motors!

That's a GREAT idea! Way more versatile for the small fields we usually fly on.

4 B6-0s = a D24 booster, to an A or B sustainer.

Very cool idea.

[sandman]

I was polite. I didn't say a word so I didn't get into trouble having diner at the inlaws.

I even played cards. :rolleyes:

But when it was time to go, I rushed home!

I turned on the heat in the garage and started making sawdust.

This what I call "Fast Prototyping"! :D

Compare.

26" overall length to 37" overall legth.

This also means that the gap staging distance is closer to 6" from 4 boosters.

I may cut out some fins yet tonight.

[sandman]

I will make these as kits along with the 24mm version.

I'm not sure how many but probably as many as needed.

Like, instead of a limited run the smaller version would wind up being a stock Roachwerks kit...maybe...I don't know.

The majority of the design work will scale down nicely with very little change. Even the directions will only need to be modified slightly to reflect the dimesion differences.

Man, what am I getting into??? :eek:

[foose4string]

Hmmm, I'm liking the sounds of an 18mm cluster even better. But for some reason, I was thinking the original one was 4 x 18mm with a 24mm sustainer. I guess it's been a while, just need to go back and read this thread again. :o The big one is awfully impressive Sandman, but don't be surprised if the smaller one is more popular. Cost per flight might be a concern for many folks on the big one. Field limitations is a good point too.

[Gus]

Really beautiful my friend.

But am I right in assuming the price per kit won't be a whole lot different from the big kit because the amount of work you have to put in lathing the balsa and cutting and gathering all the other parts will still be the same?

Whatever the answer, I want one. :D

[pchestna]

Count me in for one of the smaller ones as well!

[sandman]

Really beautiful my friend.

But am I right in assuming the price per kit won't be a whole lot different from the big kit because the amount of work you have to put in lathing the balsa and cutting and gathering all the other parts will still be the same?

Whatever the answer, I want one. :D

That's sounds about right but it will be a bit cheaper.

Less wood, smaller shock cord, smaller parachute, etc.

Let me build one first...and see if it will fly. :o

[heada]

Mark me up for both kits and the plans/instructions on CD is a great idea. A few other kit makers have been going this route and it seems to work well.

-Aaron

[Doug Sams]

Put me down for one of the little ones, too.

Nothing like a buying frenzy :)

Doug

[M.Vrstal]

Gordy....Put my name on your list for one or the other my rocket kit building friend. I've missed a couple of your kits, I don't want to miss this one!!!

[sandman]

You got it Marty! Say, Marty, could you email me so I can put you on the list officially?

OK, this is what I decided to do.

The Big Nike Hercules ( 4 x 24mm booster) will be a limited run kit. It's large and will be an expensive "Craftsman" type kit. With something that large you can go absolutely nuts with details. There is also plenty of room to put staging equipment in to stage the sustainer. 4 x 24mm motors also means it can just about lift anything you want to load into it too!

I am going to limit the number of the Big Nike Hercules to about 50 kits with an initial run of 25 ... 'cause that's all I have the money for and if I ask my wife to make me 50 of the 24" parachutes she may leave. :o

I will be able make the second run of 25 with the money from the first run of kits.

The smaller 4 x 18mm Nike Hercules will remain indefinately as part of the "Roachwerks" repertoire. I'm currently working on the "alpha" test kit prototype and I will start a new thread on it's construction...as soon as I work out a few bugs. :rolleyes:

[tonypv]

Sandman,
Put me down for one of the smaller ones.
I believe I'm on your list for a large one but the smaller version is a better fit for me.

[foose4string]

Sandman,
Put me down for one of the smaller ones.
I believe I'm on your list for a large one but the smaller version is a better fit for me.

Ditto. What Tony said!

[sandman]

I'm making good progress on the smaller version and have found a few easier "techniques" that can be used on the larger version.

I will incorperate these changes in the instructions.

That will be really easy to change with the instructions on disc. I could have wasted a bunch of paper and ink. :D

[zeke1312]

Sandman:

The smaller version looks good too! Yes, instructions, etc., on a CD/DVD is also an excellent way to go.

I'm patiently waiting in line for the big one. Wow, they look excellent, fantastic, wow again!

[Chris_Timm]

Can the 13mm and MicroMax versions be far behind???

[sandman]

Carl Tulanko at "The Rocketry Forum" did a Micro Maxx Nike Hercules about 4 years ago.

Tim at Apogee does a 13mm version...sorta.

I've been painting the prototypes for the past few days.

Nothing to see yet.

[sandman]

Finally got evrything painted (except the launch lugs).

I had a few false starts on detail placement and just what details to include. I may add a few more items yet but I had to stop some time.

The paint was dry enough for the decals and there aren't that many so I finished those after supper. Iit really brings it to life I think.

This is the Big Nike Hercules. I'll try to finish the smaller one this week.

OK, don't let me forget the launch lugs!

[barone]

WOW! That is awesome!

[sandman]

WOW! That is awesome!

Thanks!

There are dozens of tiny detail I could still add but really...I just had to stop or it would never get finished.

I wanted a fully painted prototype for test flights. There is just so much surface area on the sustainer that gets painted that I wasn't sure about how much nose weight it will need.

So far it tips the scales at 11.7 oz. without the engines so even with 4 Estes "E" motors it should get a good liftoff and still not require an FAA waiver or notification.

[barone]

So....test flight as two stage? I know earlier you were concerned about the stability of the sustainer.

[sandman]

Single stage test flight.

The way the model is designed it must be built as a two stage from the beginning to accomodate the rear ejection on two first stage motor tubes.

That means that I need to build another prototype. :rolleyes:

It's a terrible job but somebody has to do it!

[Chris_Timm]

So far it tips the scales at 11.7 oz. without the engines so even with 4 Estes "E" motors it should get a good liftoff and still not require an FAA waiver or notification.

IIRC, the propellant weight of just 3 Estes E9's puts it over the limit as a "model rocket".

Woiuld (5) D-12's put it over the propellant weight limit as well?

[sandman]

IIRC, the propellant weight of just 3 Estes E9's puts it over the limit as a "model rocket".

Woiuld (5) D-12's put it over the propellant weight limit as well?

I've flown a 3 "E" cluster at NARAM...nobody said anything.

I don't care...I'm level 1 anyway :rolleyes:

It's sort of like when Johnny Fever worried about the phone police. :p

[dwmzmm]

I've flown a 3 "E" cluster at NARAM...nobody said anything.

I don't care...I'm level 1 anyway :rolleyes:

It's sort of like when Johnny Fever worried about the phone police. :p

I've flown my Maxi-Alphax4 twice with two D12-7's & two E9-6's; guess that'll make me
a Level One too?! :rolleyes:

Pic below of that Maxi-Alphax4's liftoff at NSL - 2006 by Tim Sapp of DARS. Model was lost
in flight when we couldn't find it after recovery (it was sighted during descent with its' yellow
nylon chute; may have landed on top of the many trees in the downrange area at McGregor,
TX).

[zeke1312]

Sandman:


Unbelievable! The Nike Herc you've designed is beautiful. I've got to say one thing, you have talent that few possess! Oh, just wanted to verify I'm still on the list for the large Nike Herc!

[Phred]

Lookin VERY good!! :)

BTW: You should be receiving the 18mm 'downscaled' decals today...

Phred

[sandman]

Lookin VERY good!! :)

BTW: You should be receiving the 18mm 'downscaled' decals today...

Phred

Actually, I got the decals yesterrday, thanks, Phred!

I'll try to get the 18mm version finished tonight.

[moonzero2]

Beautiful!!!!!!!

That's how NASA would do it,... test single stage 1st,... then test two stage.

I figured this up once and 4 e's would put you over the limit.
4 D's does not.
3 E's does not.
2 E's and 2 D's is just barely under the limit.
That's if I figured correctly.

[barone]

Beautiful!!!!!!!

That's how NASA would do it,... test single stage 1st,... then test two stage.

I figured this up once and 4 e's would put you over the limit.
4 D's does not.
3 E's does not.
2 E's and 2 D's is just barely under the limit.
That's if I figured correctly.Rule 7 of the model rocket safety code states no more than 125 grams of propellant total in a rocket. Total impulse no more than 320N-sec.
Estes D12s have 21.1 grams of propellant . 5 X 21.1 = 105.5. Legal (two stage) and obviously legal as a single stage. Total impulse of 85 N-sec (barely G class).
Estes E9s have 35.8 grams of propellant. 2 X 35.8 + 2 X 21.1 = 113.8 (2 Ds and 2 Es) for single stage. Total impulse of 91 N-sec (G class).
Aerotech F32s have 37.7 grams of propellant. 3 X 37.7 =113.1 (Two stage with timer) Total impulse of 240 N-Sec (H class). (F32s are single use, 24mm)

[sandman]

So unless you are level 1 only use 4 "D's".

[barone]

Well, that's the nice thing about this build, there are so many different configurations you can fly it in and still be out of the H class. Me, I'm going the NASA route....First flight as a single stage (I'll figure out how to keep the sustainer attached). Next flight, 2 stage. But that gap stagin has me worried so it may have to have a ground test for that. Of course, I do have a timer :rolleyes:

[sandman]

But that gap stagin has me worried so it may have to have a ground test for that. Of course, I do have a timer :rolleyes:


Yea, I was thinking the same thing.

[moonzero2]

Am I thinking correctly,... in theory you could use 2 D's and 2 E's and not 4 E's. :confused:

[heada]

Not only is (2) D12 + (2) E9 below the limits, you can configure it as a 2 stage and remain below the limits as well (assuming total propellant weights are per stage, not per rocket) if you use (4) D12 in booster and (1) E9 in sustainer.

:D

-Aaron

[Doug Sams]

assuming total propellant weights are per stage, not per rocketNo, it's per rocket. But good try :D

125g total, no matter whether it's one motor or several, clustered or staged.

Doug

[barone]

No, it's per rocket. But good try :D

125g total, no matter whether it's one motor or several, clustered or staged.

DougAnd, no more than 62.5 grams in one motor....

[dwmzmm]

The reason(s) why I used the two D12-7's & two E9-6's for my Maxi-Alphax4 are because
the propellant weight brings it (barely) within the legal limit; the higher thrust of the two
D12's helps get the model off the pad quickly and the two E9's longer thrust gives a good
sustainer capability, and from ignition to ejection, the number of seconds for both the
D12-7 & E9-6 is just about the same.

When I build my next Maxi-Alphax4 model (I do have the parts to build at least two more!),
I may try to fly using the two D11-P & two E9-6 configuration and see what happens....

[CPMcGraw]

The reason(s) why I used the two D12-7's & two E9-6's for my Maxi-Alphax4 are because
the propellant weight brings it (barely) within the legal limit; the higher thrust of the two
D12's helps get the model off the pad quickly and the two E9's longer thrust gives a good
sustainer capability, and from ignition to ejection, the number of seconds for both the
D12-7 & E9-6 is just about the same.

When I build my next Maxi-Alphax4 model (I do have the parts to build at least two more!),
I may try to fly using the two D11-P & two E9-6 configuration and see what happens....

That's also one of the combinations I used in the ViperJet 4256 design: LINK (http://http//forums.rocketshoppe.com/showpost.php?p=10350&postcount=582)

It nearly matches out in the thrust-to-delay timeline. The D12-7's actually burn out before the E9-6's, because of the longer thrust time of the two E's, something like 0.2 seconds early, IIRC...

[Green Dragon]

Unless I missed something along the way - re: prop weight limits, etc....

As noted ( 4 E's or similar ) puts you over the 125 gm limit.

HOWEVER, it's my understanding, if you are at aa launch with a waiver in place, then you do NOT have to be cert level anything in order to cluster over 125 gms .

at MINUMUM, I would think you can go up to 320 nsec without any certification ( twice the 'single motor - no cert" level..... such as when , for example a Cert 1 ( up to I motors ) can CLUSTER or STAGE up to 1280 n-sec , or Cert 2 can cluster up to 10,240 Nsec ( FULL M ) , just nothing over an L single use - so, for example again - three full K motors would be ok at Cert 2.

I know , For Sandman, if you come down to a Geneseo launch with a waiver in place, then nobody will ever think twice about 4 x E9's... it's " waiver material " , but certainly not " Cert level " stuff.

Just my take on the issue, as a past / long time cluster flier, and oft RSO .

~ AL

[barone]

Unless I missed something along the way - re: prop weight limits, etc....

As noted ( 4 E's or similar ) puts you over the 125 gm limit.

HOWEVER, it's my understanding, if you are at aa launch with a waiver in place, then you do NOT have to be cert level anything in order to cluster over 125 gms .

at MINUMUM, I would think you can go up to 320 nsec without any certification ( twice the 'single motor - no cert" level..... such as when , for example a Cert 1 ( up to I motors ) can CLUSTER or STAGE up to 1280 n-sec , or Cert 2 can cluster up to 10,240 Nsec ( FULL M ) , just nothing over an L single use - so, for example again - three full K motors would be ok at Cert 2.

I know , For Sandman, if you come down to a Geneseo launch with a waiver in place, then nobody will ever think twice about 4 x E9's... it's " waiver material " , but certainly not " Cert level " stuff.

Just my take on the issue, as a past / long time cluster flier, and oft RSO .

~ ALAl,
Isn't the certification program in place basically so you can PURCHASE high power rocket motors? The limits, as I understand them, listed in the Sporting Code is bascially for insurance through the NAR. In other words, if you fly a model that exceeds the limits in the Code, and you have an accident, the NAR insurance won't pay because the Code was violated. I need educated here....... :confused:

[Doug Sams]

Unless I missed something along the way - re: prop weight limits, etc....

As noted ( 4 E's or similar ) puts you over the 125 gm limit.

HOWEVER, it's my understanding, if you are at aa launch with a waiver in place, then you do NOT have to be cert level anything in order to cluster over 125 gms . Hi, Al,

There are two considerations - the FAA and club rules (NAR/TRA). When I posted 125g earlier, I was thinking FAA only and not considering the club HPR rules. So, yes, if at a launch with a waiver, exceeding 125g is OK as far as the FAA is concerned. But the club rules must still be considered and are in conflict with your statement.

Any rocket with more than 125g of propellant is HPR and requires the flier to be HPR certified. That said, I imagine that not all SCOs/RSOs catch this resulting in some uncert'd HPR flights.

at MINUMUM, I would think you can go up to 320 nsec without any certification ( twice the 'single motor - no cert" level Yes, I agree, although a flier would be hard pressed to get much above 250Ns without exceeding the 125g limit.

Above 320Ns is HPR, and HPR cert is required (at a club launch).

such as when , for example a Cert 1 ( up to I motors ) can CLUSTER or STAGE up to 1280 n-sec , or Cert 2 can cluster up to 10,240 Nsec ( FULL M ) , just nothing over an L single use - so, for example again - three full K motors would be ok at Cert 2. I'm not sure about HPR clusters. What you say - that a certified rocketeer can cluster up to two maximum allowed motors together - sounds right. I think I've heard it before. But if you have a cite, I'd like to see it. I struck out on the NAR and Tripoli sites. I'm not trying to put you on the spot - I'd just like to know for sure.

Doug

[sandman]

Here's my take on this engine thing.

If you are going to build one of these things and stage it. I would concider using two of the booster motors for rear ejection. That booster is going to be heavy so two 12" chutes should recover it nicely. The other two are for igniting the upper stage. (I hope!)

As for the waiver notification thing well...I wouldn't fly this thing by myself! ;)

I would want others to see it fly. It will be flown at a club launch! :D

What is the fun of building something like this just to fly alone?

BTW, I almost have the 18mm version finished...just have to put on the decals after the glue dries on the launch lugs (I REMEMBERED!!!) :)

[sandman]

Finally got all the tiny details finished.

There is the "Spring Fling" contest at HUVARS tomorrow but I don't know if they can be "flight ready".

They look pretty anyway.

[Rocket nut]

Those are beautiful Sandman. Very impressive.

[Rocketflyer]

Finally got all the tiny details finished.

There is the "Spring Fling" contest at HUVARS tomorrow but I don't know if they can be "flight ready".

They look pretty anyway.

More than pretty, Sandman. Terrific craftsmanship :)

[zeke1312]

Hi Sandman:

Just checking in on your progress. Close to selling any NH? Thanks

[sandman]

Hi Sandman:

Just checking in on your progress. Close to selling any NH? Thanks

Let's just say I'm closer..

But not ready yet. :o

[sandman]

I am getting a LOT of good feedback from barone on this kit so far.

He's been a whole lot more help on the instructions than my wife has.

Oops...was that out loud? :o

[foose4string]

That may very well be....but how well would he do at sewing a 100 chutes? ;)

[Chris_Timm]

He's been a whole lot more help on the instructions than my wife has.
Oops...was that out loud? :o

Doesn't really matter.
If you've been married for any extended length of time, your partner can pretty much read your mind before you've finished processing your thought yourself!

Did you fly the Herc yet?

If so, then....................wheres the pics?????????????

[sandman]

Say...can I get a little Roc Sim help?

I've been trying to do a Sim of my Nike Hercules and well...

This is as far as I could get.

Anybody know how to make the booster a cluster of 4 BT-55's?

[CPMcGraw]

Sandman,

Try this revision. The components are not properly sized, but I think you can get the idea for running the simulation. There is a bit of trickery involved. You start with a "reference tube" that has no mass and which has 0.00 opacity, but has a length that fully covers the length of the booster tubes. Next, add your booster tubes as "inside tubes" using the cluster feature. Finally, add the bottom shroud as another visible tube and attach the fins to that.

There are additional "fine tuning" points you could work on to get the simulation more accurate, involving the CG and Cd values. Those are areas that I'm still a novice with... :o

Also note, you might not be able to add motor mounts as "subassemblies" to these booster tubes, but you can add the motor tubes and rings as separate components inside each tube.

[sandman]

Thanks, Craig.

Let me play with it this afternoon if I get some time.

But...I still have to figure out how to put motor tubes and stuff in there.

Maybe I'll just be happy with getting the CP location and deal with the CG in the real world model.

In the meantime...I need you guys to visit my "for sale" thread to help me buy parts for this project.

http://forums.rocketshoppe.com/showthread.php?t=1728

[sandman]

OK, I think I got it!

Can someone look this over and find any glaring errors?

I did a simulation with four D12-5's and got 635' Not too bad for scale but...

When I plugged in 4 Estes E9-6's I got over 1,400'!!!

Is that right???? :eek:

Oh, yea...I included a Rocsim of just the sustainer. That's stable too.

All of the Nike Herc kits will have a pre drilled 1" hole in the nose cone a a 1" in diameter slug of lead as the Mass Object in the nose cone.

[CPMcGraw]

OK, I think I got it!

Can someone look this over and find any glaring errors?

I did a simulation with four D12-5's and got 635' Not too bad for scale but...

When I plugged in 4 Estes E9-6's I got over 1,400'!!!

Is that right???? :eek:

Oh, yea...I included a Rocsim of just the sustainer. That's stable too.

All of the Nike Herc kits will have a pre drilled 1" hole in the nose cone a a 1" in diameter slug of lead as the Mass Object in the nose cone.

It's similar to the results I got on the version I sent you earlier. The downside is in the deployment velocities -- nearly 50 FPS when the parachutes explosively open up and likely snap the connection. You might want to experiment with reloads and some custom-selected time delays to achieve a more recovery-friendly Dv. Something less than 20 FPS...

[sandman]

Well, if I add more nose weight up to 7.8oz. it only take 100' off the maximum altitude but slows the deployment veklocity down to 29fps...but then you got a half pound nose cone flying out the end! :eek:

[sandman]

I've been casting the lead slugs for the kits. I made a simple mold by drilling a 1" hole (to match the hole in the nose cone) 1.5" deep in a scrap of 2x4, then cutting the block of wood in half on my band saw.

Heat the lead and pour it in. It kinda scorches the block of wood but every ten or so slugs I castIi just make a new mold out of another scrap of 2x4.

Hmmm.... maybe 7.8oz will be a tad too much.

Maybe I'll make them a bit smaller. :o

If I make them about 5 oz each the hole in the nose cone is big enough that the builder can add more weight with bb's if he wants to.

[barone]

I've been casting the lead slugs for the kits. I made a simple mold by drilling a 1" hole (to match the hole in the nose cone) 1.5" deep in a scrap of 2x4, then cutting the block of wood in half on my band saw.

Heat the lead and pour it in. It kinda scorches the block of wood but every ten or so slugs I castIi just make a new mold out of another scrap of 2x4.

Hmmm.... maybe 7.8oz will be a tad too much.

Maybe I'll make them a bit smaller. :o

If I make them about 5 oz each the hole in the nose cone is big enough that the builder can add more weight with bb's if he wants to.I was wondering how you got that slug ;) The pre-drilled hole is a definite plus. :)

[barone]

It's similar to the results I got on the version I sent you earlier. The downside is in the deployment velocities -- nearly 50 FPS when the parachutes explosively open up and likely snap the connection. You might want to experiment with reloads and some custom-selected time delays to achieve a more recovery-friendly Dv. Something less than 20 FPS...Just looked at the RockSim.....If I'm reaing this right, it's still going up when the parachute deploys :confused:

[sandman]

Just looked at the RockSim.....If I'm reaing this right, it's still going up when the parachute deploys :confused:

Yes, If you use E9-8 the deployment speed is the same but you get an extra 40 feet of altitude.

You got the really heavy lead weight (7.9 oz I believe) I'm making some 4 oz weits that may work better.

Let me know and i'll send you the smaller one.

Or just whack off about 3/4" off of yours with a hack saw. :rolleyes:

[CPMcGraw]

Yes, If you use E0-8 the deployment speed is the same but you get an extra 40 feet of altitude.

This might be a good candidate for an altimeter deployment...

[sandman]

This might be a good candidate for an altimeter deployment...

That's an idea!

Maybe with some kind of spring latch deployment and leave out the nose weight.

[CPMcGraw]

That's an idea!

Maybe with some kind of spring latch deployment and leave out the nose weight.

Use the altimeter and its battery as the nose weight...

Include an accelerometer to trigger the sustainer, using the same battery pack...

[zeke1312]

Thought I'd check the status of the Nike Hercules kit release?

[sandman]

I guess I do owe you guys an update.

I think the beta test is coming along but...I haven't heard from my "tester" in a while.

I have most...not all...of the money for the parts and an OK from my supplier but the parts won't arrive for a few weeks yet.

I do have about 5 handmade kits pretty much ready.

My wife still has to sew more parachutes but I thought I'd better wait before i start to nag her on it.

Today is our 37th anniverary so maybe I can bring it up after I take her out to diner tonight...NOT!!! :rolleyes:

[barone]

I guess I do owe you guys an update.

I think the beta test is coming along but...I haven't heard from my "tester" in a while.

I have most...not all...of the money for the parts and an OK from my supplier but the parts won't arrive for a few weeks yet.

I do have about 5 handmade kits pretty much ready.

My wife still has to sew more parachutes but I thought I'd better wait before i start to nag her on it.

Today is our 37th anniverary so maybe I can bring it up after I take her out to diner tonight...NOT!!! :rolleyes:Sorry Gordon....my wife has me doing some garden work. I'm hoping to get her satisfied to a point where I can sit down and work without having to get back up and see if this looks okay or move this there for me or can you dig that a little deeper..... :rolleyes:

[sandman]

Sorry Gordon....my wife has me doing some garden work. I'm hoping to get her satisfied to a point where I can sit down and work without having to get back up and see if this looks okay or move this there for me or can you dig that a little deeper..... :rolleyes:

Been there... still doing that! :o