Question about various Mercury Redstone's

[Palm_Tree]

I have re-discovered rocketry after a 25 year absence and am purchasing some new and older rockets. I have noticed that there appear to be three different versions of the Estes Mercury Redstone. There is one that is currently for sale at numerous hobby shops on-line numbered #2167 that is 23.5" tall, has 2 parachutes (12" & 18") and is 1.6" diameter. Then there is another version - #1921 - that was avail from '84-'90 that is 28.75" tall, has two 12" parachutes and is 2.0" diameter. The last one (or first)i s #1241 that was avail '69-81 and appears to have same measurements as the new one (#2167).
Is there anything I am missing here? I am looking to purchase one that I intend to build and launch often. Any comments or suggestions as to which one to go with would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Laurence

PS: I am trying to find some of my old time favourites which were The Patriot, Renegade and Sandhawk. I've been keeping an eye on ebay...any other suggestions?

[Ltvscout]

I have re-discovered rocketry after a 25 year absence and am purchasing some new and older rockets. I have noticed that there appear to be three different versions of the Estes Mercury Redstone. There is one that is currently for sale at numerous hobby shops on-line numbered #2167 that is 23.5" tall, has 2 parachutes (12" & 18") and is 1.6" diameter. Then there is another version - #1921 - that was avail from '84-'90 that is 28.75" tall, has two 12" parachutes and is 2.0" diameter. The last one (or first)i s #1241 that was avail '69-81 and appears to have same measurements as the new one (#2167).
Is there anything I am missing here? I am looking to purchase one that I intend to build and launch often. Any comments or suggestions as to which one to go with would be much appreciated.
They're all now OOP, but The cheapest route would be to buy the most recent #2167 you can still find in some hobby shops. The #1241 was the original Estes design and used a BT-60 or BT-70 size tube and a wooden capsule that you built up. The #1921 was based on the Centuri version of the MR and used an ST-20 (2") tube and had a plastic capsule. The #2167 is similar to the #1921 (same tube size and plastic capsule), but uses crappy plastic fins and stickers for the decals.

[Palm_Tree]

Thanks Scott for the feedback!

It sounds to me that I should focus on purcahsing either the 1921 or the 1241.

Laurence

[Ltvscout]

Thanks Scott for the feedback!

It sounds to me that I should focus on purcahsing either the 1921 or the 1241.
You'll find them on eBay. Just be prepared to shell out some $$$ for them.

[barone]

PS: I am trying to find some of my old time favourites which were The Patriot, Renegade and Sandhawk. I've been keeping an eye on ebay...any other suggestions?

These kits are OOP also. Suggest going to the plans section and downloading a copy of the plans and clone the rockets. Parts can be had from SEMROC or BMS and you can try Excelsior for decals. I'm working on a Renegade clone now. I got the parts from Semroc and a great looking decal set from Excelsior. I'm not sure if Phred (Excelsior) can do the Patriot decals but you may be able to get them from Tango Papa or JimZ.

Don
NAR 53455

[Green Dragon]

These kits are OOP also. Suggest going to the plans section and downloading a copy of the plans and clone the rockets. Parts can be had from SEMROC or BMS and you can try Excelsior for decals. I'm working on a Renegade clone now. I got the parts from Semroc and a great looking decal set from Excelsior. I'm not sure if Phred (Excelsior) can do the Patriot decals but you may be able to get them from Tango Papa or JimZ.

Don
NAR 53455

Phred has decals for both the Patriot and Renegade.

I have a renegade in the que myself ( parts purchased, find drawn on basswood, but uncut yet ) .

As for the Sandhawk, you will have a tough time building a clone of the sandhawk, which used a lot of special plastic parts.
Hunt Ebay, but,again , bring the checkbook .....

You might build a semi-scale Sandhawk from scratch using curent parts, the Estes BT60 cone in some PNC-60 paks is real close.

Good luck and welcome back ! :)

~ AL

[sandman]

A bt-60 sized Sandhawk is very "doable" with off the shelf parts. But it is fairly tall at about 33" in that scale.

Here's mine next to my BT-60 sized Black Brant II

They fly great on a D12-5's.

[Gus]

I agree with Scott that the basic Estes 2167 kit suffers from the cheesiness of the stickers. Nonetheless, the kit does provide a sport scale-looking model for very little effort. As for the fins themselves, I think the plastic fins are likely to be way more accurate than most modelers can make themselves from balsa in the 2 earlier kits.

If you want the best scale Redstone possible from an Estes kit, for not much more work than the basic 2167 kit requires, then do the following:

Buy a 2167 Redstone from AC Supply. (http://www.acsupplyco.com/cap/cap_rockets.htm) If you buy it from the Civil Air Patrol part of their site (the link I provided) the price is $18.90. Otherwise it is $21.10. I don't know what shipping is but if you buy $100 worth of stuff you get free shipping (even on motors). Very reliable outfit.

Next go to the Philippus Lansbergen (http://www.lansbergen.net/eng/index.htm) site and download the PDFs labeled ESTES MR-7 or ESTES MR-8. These PDFs allow you to created fantastically detailed skins for the Estes kit. The instructions in the PDF's also include details on how to lengthen the body tube to give it a correct scale size and how to reposition the plastic fins to their correct scale (but still flyable) location. Truly an amazing set of upgrades to the 2167 kit, and free! :D

[Ltvscout]

Buy a 2167 Redstone from AC Supply. (http://www.acsupplyco.com/cap/cap_rockets.htm) If you buy it from the Civil Air Patrol part of their site (the link I provided) the price is $18.90. Otherwise it is $21.10. I don't know what shipping is but if you buy $100 worth of stuff you get free shipping (even on motors). Very reliable outfit.
Thanks for the tip on the link for cheaper prices from AC Supply. ;)

Next go to the Philippus Lansbergen (http://www.lansbergen.net/eng/index.htm) site and download the PDFs labeled ESTES MR-7 or ESTES MR-8. These PDFs allow you to created fantastically detailed skins for the Estes kit. The instructions in the PDF's also include details on how to lengthen the body tube to give it a correct scale size and how to reposition the plastic fins to their correct scale (but still flyable) location. Truly an amazing set of upgrades to the 2167 kit, and free! :D
Whoa! There's some cool stuff on his Models link! I never heard of this guy/site. Was this discussed on TRF or something? I'm going to have to add a link to his site on YORS.

[Gus]

Scott,

The person who designed the Redstone wraps, and many of the other models on the Philippus Lansbergen site, is Erik te Groen. Erik's English is pretty good and he posts occasionaly on TRF under the name " te_groen31".

Believe it or not, he just started launching model rockets this summer, 2 years after he did the incredible Redstone wraps!

Definitely post a link to the Lansbergen site. And drop Erik a note via TRF and ask him to post here as well, especially about any new models. He's always working on something new, the quality is exceptional, many can be converted to flying models, and the price is right. :D

[Tweener]

I have the latest Estes Redstone (2167). Since I'm not much of a stickler for detail, stand-way-off scale is fine. I built it in a weekend. I used plain white primer on the main section, and didn't bother to sand 'n' fill the spirals. The capsule got a shot of cheap off-brand flat-black spraypaint. Since the tower was molded in red, I didn't bother to paint it. After final assembly and peel 'n' stick application - I doubt if anyone could tell the difference between it and one that may have taken a month to build at the distance they are from the actual launch. ;) BTW, use thin CA on the fin root slots. I don't know why, but Testors plastic model cement seems to have lost its adhesive power since my static display model days. :confused: Maybe they changed formula to prevent "huffing".

[Leo]

I have re-discovered rocketry after a 25 year absence and am purchasing some new and older rockets. I have noticed that there appear to be three different versions of the Estes Mercury Redstone. There is one that is currently for sale at numerous hobby shops on-line numbered #2167 that is 23.5" tall, has 2 parachutes (12" & 18") and is 1.6" diameter. Then there is another version - #1921 - that was avail from '84-'90 that is 28.75" tall, has two 12" parachutes and is 2.0" diameter. The last one (or first)i s #1241 that was avail '69-81 and appears to have same measurements as the new one (#2167).
Is there anything I am missing here? I am looking to purchase one that I intend to build and launch often. Any comments or suggestions as to which one to go with would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Laurence

PS: I am trying to find some of my old time favourites which were The Patriot, Renegade and Sandhawk. I've been keeping an eye on ebay...any other suggestions?

Laurence, welcome back :)

I've got the 3 Estes versions in my lineup.

Scroll to the middle: Redstone pics ... (http://www.leo.nutz.de/Rockets.php?Rockets=Estes%20Industries)

I would recommend you try to get kit # 1921 as it is the best and most accurate version.

[ghrocketman]

The Redstone price on AC Supply is great but the $10.00 flat rate shipping for orders up to $100.00 STINKS when ordering something that should ship for like 4 bucks.
I'll pay around $24-$25 for this kit, but not the almost $30.00.

I can still walk into two hobby shops within 10 miles of my home and pick up this kit for $30.00, with no waiting.
I'd rather spand $50.00 for an Estes #1921 or $100.00 for a K-41 original (I have 3 of those).

The original Estes K-41 is only semi-scale, but it is a REAL "builders" kit....when you build those fins and escape tower out of UMPTEEN pieces of hand-cut/shaped WOOD, you know you have accomplished something. It is probably the most difficult to assemble correctly kit ever produced by Estes. Compared to most of my R/C aircraft building, it is still a joke.
No plastic in that one whatsoever.

I agree that Testors plastic cement has nowhere near the solvent content it used to. I squeeze the tube out into a small jar and add to the jar 1 part Toluene to 2 parts Testors cement....it restores it to the "old fashioned" stuff and works well. I apply it with a toothpick.

If the plastic parts fit well, Tenax 7R plastic welder is far superior to the Testors stuff....it contains far nastier chemicals though....think it is Trichloroethane mixed with Methylene Chloride. Works great, lousy for humans to breathe....probably can't even get it anymore in Commiefornia or Taxachusetts.

[Palm_Tree]

Thanks everyone for all of the information, comments and feedback pertaining to my question about the Mercury Redstone's. It was nice to receive such a warm welcome and to see just how passionate and excited people can be about this fun and creative hobby.

I'm suer I'll be back with some other questions shortly...!

Laurence

[dwmzmm]

Scott,

The person who designed the Redstone wraps, and many of the other models on the Philippus Lansbergen site, is Erik te Groen. Erik's English is pretty good and he posts occasionaly on TRF under the name " te_groen31".

Believe it or not, he just started launching model rockets this summer, 2 years after he did the incredible Redstone wraps!

Definitely post a link to the Lansbergen site. And drop Erik a note via TRF and ask him to post here as well, especially about any new models. He's always working on something new, the quality is exceptional, many can be converted to flying models, and the price is right. :D

Thanks for telling us about the Lansbergen site! I've immediately bookmarked it...

[Gus]

I first discovered paper modelers on the web when I was looking for some Vostok patterns for a Bertha Bash nite with my local NAR group. Many of these models are truly incredible and I've picked up a number of useful rocketry modeling techniques by building paper models.

The best list of rocketry related paper modeling sites I've come across is produced by rocketeer Wayne Hill and is hosted on his website/blog. (http://rocketry.wordpress.com/ultimate-paper-rocket-guide/) All my favorite sites are there plus a whole bunch more I haven't had time yet to go through.

Scott, I think it would add a lot to YORS to put up a page of paper rocketry models. Perhaps you might convince Wayne Hill to be the editor?

[Bob H]

I first discovered paper modelers on the web when I was looking for some Vostok patterns for a Bertha Bash nite with my local NAR group. Many of these models are truly incredible and I've picked up a number of useful rocketry modeling techniques by building paper models.

The best list of rocketry related paper modeling sites I've come across is produced by rocketeer Wayne Hill and is hosted on his website/blog. (http://rocketry.wordpress.com/ultimate-paper-rocket-guide/) All my favorite sites are there plus a whole bunch more I haven't had time yet to go through.

Scott, I think it would add a lot to YORS to put up a page of paper rocketry models. Perhaps you might convince Wayne Hill to be the editor?I couldn't agree more. About 1/3 of my models are paper models. I make a lot of Micro-Maxx from paper and have downscaled a bunch of classics for 13mm and MMX.

[Bob H]

I couldn't agree more. About 1/3 of my models are paper models. I make a lot of Micro-Maxx from paper and have downscaled a bunch of classics for 13mm and MMX.
Of course I don't limit paper models to small ones.

[Ltvscout]

Scott, I think it would add a lot to YORS to put up a page of paper rocketry models. Perhaps you might convince Wayne Hill to be the editor?
I will certainly put a link to Wayne's site and that European site (I didn't see it on Wayne's list, unless I'm blind) on YORS at my next update. I'm not really looking to devote drivespace to that though. The YORS focus is more on Old Rockets.

[Bob H]

I will certainly put a link to Wayne's site and that European site (I didn't see it on Wayne's list, unless I'm blind) on YORS at my next update. I'm not really looking to devote drivespace to that though. The YORS focus is more on Old Rockets.

It's on the list... Phillippus Lansbergen..

Wayne's list is great. I used to have all those sites individually bookmarked but it's so much easier to go to just one place.

[Ltvscout]

It's on the list... Phillippus Lansbergen..

Wayne's list is great. I used to have all those sites individually bookmarked but it's so much easier to go to just one place.
Like I said, maybe I'm blind. ;) I just sent a message to Wayne asking if I could link to his site. I see he has some of my sites listed there already.

[Gus]

I will certainly put a link to Wayne's site and that European site ... on YORS at my next update. I'm not really looking to devote drivespace to that though. The YORS focus is more on Old Rockets.Makes good sense, Scott. We like the focus.

Bob, your models are great. Are they all fliers?

[Bob H]

Makes good sense, Scott. We like the focus.

Bob, your models are great. Are they all fliers?
Yes they are all good fliers. They are so light that you don't need big motors and the streamers in them are mainly to help find them.

[lessgravity]

Thanks for the links to my site. If you guys ever come across any links to paper rocket models that are not on my site please let me know. I am constantly trying to keep the list up-to-date. I plan to start a contest in the near future for new paper models.

Wayne Hill
The Rocketry Blog (http://rocketry.wordpress.com)

[Ltvscout]

Thanks for the links to my site. If you guys ever come across any links to paper rocket models that are not on my site please let me know. I am constantly trying to keep the list up-to-date. I plan to start a contest in the near future for new paper models.

Wayne Hill
The Rocketry Blog (http://rocketry.wordpress.com)
I take it that's an affirmative on it being ok for me to add it to YORS? :D

[lessgravity]

I take it that's an affirmative on it being ok for me to add it to YORS? :D

Yes! Please do add my site. ...and by the way I am a huge fan of YORS. Keep up the good work!


Wayne Hill
The Rocketry Blog (http://rocketry.wordpress.com)
NAR# 85768

[flygrimm]

For another alternative to the Mercury Redstone, you may wait a little while for the new Dr. Zooch version. I'm not sure what the scale is, but you can see the beta build at http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30414.

Stuart